Have the Epic and Ikon Passes RUINED Skiing? An Honest Look

Epic and Ikon have revolutionized the way that winter sports enthusiasts can access the mountains, but they've made serious headlines over the past few years for what many have characterized as “ruining” the ski industry.

So have the Epic and Ikon Pass products really ruined skiing, and if they have, what can you do about it? Let’s take a look.

0:00 Intro
0:43 What Are Epic and Ikon?
1:36 How These Passes Came to Dominate the Ski World
3:03 Lift Ticket and Season Pass Cost Impacts
6:04 Crowding Impacts
9:36 Large-Scale Capital Investments
11:21 Impacts to Local Businesses
12:33 Corporatization of Destination Ski Resorts
13:20 Rise of Independent Ski Mountains
15:52 Final Thoughts

Follow us on other channels!

[yugeno]

Lift-serve skiing in Colorado is Disney World now. Sit in traffic on I-70, going and coming for hours. Stand in line waiting to get on a lift. Crowded slopes full of clowns. Overcrowded restaurants with crap food and drink. It's such a soul crushing and demoralizing experience now.

[ryanevans]

Shoutout to Wolf Creek, where the price is the same at the window the morning of as it was online in September

[AndrewWells]

This is an OUTSTANDINGLY balanced view of the impact of corporate-ization of the ski industry... as with all all pleasurable pursuits, the money comes in and changes everything... this is a great look at the positives as well as the negatives and I think the conclusion is accurate... either take advantage and exploit this leverage or stay local and intensify your experience

[combineecho]

I absolutely feel the traffic point you had. Several times I have driven 3+ hours to get to Stevens pass just to not get parking and have to go home. It’s awful…

[phyllipstallard]

Maybe you can ski a bit cheaper if you ski often, but the more you look into this the more you notice how bad it is. I think the easiest way to see the difference (that wasn’t mentioned in the video) is with resort websites. They are all basically cut and paste one from the next. All uniqueness has been destroyed at these resorts. The charm of skiing is getting super commercialized. At this point a lot of us have no option but to buy a pass… but I’ll never admit to this transition being a net positive. Yea ski a little cheaper but at what cost? Crazy lines, no charm, school lunch quality food, payed parking everywhere, and now reservations are getting really bad and just strait up annoying. They’ve taken everything 😭😭😭

[djdksf]

As a longtime Epic Tahoe skier (Kirkwood was home, ) I can tell you they've ruined Tahoe. This year, I bought the Cali Pass, which is only for smaller mountains south of the lake (namely, Bear Valley, Dodge Ridge, and China Peak.) So far, I'm having a lot more fun and dealing with a lot less gaper madness. At Bear, even on weekends, I can lap chairs nonstop with virtually no wait times, parking is (relevantly) easy, and I don't feel like I'm supporting an evil corporation that treats its employees and its customers like disposable garbage.

[cammoffat]

As usual, great video, thanks. Still ski a ton, but I miss the days when I moved to Colorado in 93 when we would literally make are decision on where to ski as we were driving up to the mountains. Can no longer ski at any resorts not offered on my ICON pass.

[atspeed]

Just another aspect of modern life. A malignant corporation buys everything, creates a monopoly, and commences the shittification of the thing to boost profits. Corporations are the enemy.

[mikelee]

I love the IndyPass. It allowed me to visit cool little towns and go to resorts I didn't even know existed. I bought a Timberline season pass last year and had the most fun I've ever had snowboarding as it is part of the PowderAlliance and gave me 3 free days at other Alliance resorts which tend to be smaller, independent resorts. I got the Mt Shasta season pass this year which is also part of PowderAlliance with the same perks. Don't sleep on Indy and Powder Alliance.

[cb-side]

I spotted a sticker on a lift tower of a small area that read: "IKON'T wait for you to leave"

[dagduesund]

People who use their IKON or Epic pass numerous times to "make it pay for itself" are fooled into a sense of gratification once they "pass the point where it has paid for itself". We do buy the IKON pass because we do ski locally most every weekend when there is snow up in Big Bear and it allows us our trips up to Mammoth but it is still a rip-off. Back in the "old country" (Norway btw) a last minute day ticket at a resort called Hemsedal (20+ lifts, 3, 000 ft vertical), an adult day lift ticket is currently 59.00 Euros, or about $64.00 US at current exchange rates. Divide that $1, 200 IKON pass by $64.00 and you need to ski 19 times for the pass to pay for itself. By raising the price to $250.00 for a one day lift ticket one is lulled into the belief that it only takes 5 ski days to make it worth the price. Bottom line, without the IKON pass it's cheaper to fly to Norway from LAX, take the bus from Oslo to Hemsedal, stay in a ski-in hotel there for a week and buy a week's pass for Hemsedal Ski resort than to drive to Mammoth from L.A., stay in a ski-In hotel and buy a weeks worth of day tickets (I know they have "week deals" but they got that in Hemsedal too). And remember, Norway is the most expensive country in Europe.

[engineear]

This is classic corporations at work. Boost revenue in the early season/summer with pass sales, then sustain it through the season with the higher day users and parking.

[shaunbava]

It created a crowding problem, things are now way too corporate but the biggest thing is that it is killing the sport. Casual people cannot go, those who aren't already into it aren't spending thousands on passes in July or even September. Those people who maybe want a ski a few days a year or try it take one look at the stupid prices and are out. Back in the old days of deals and discounts people could take their family skiing for the day or the weekend without a commitment or breaking the bank. Ask someone without a pass to join you for a ski weekend and for a family of 4 just lift tickets are $1400 that's before $30 chicken tenders, $15 beers, paid parking, and god forbid if you need ski school or rentals. No normal people can afford that and they have made that the reality. I see an activity that while always expensive was far more accessible 40 years ago than it is today and that is the opposite of progress.

[ludditechange]

My family owned property in Breckenridge for over 40 years, and saw multiple changes of ownership of the mountain and several boom and bust cycles over the years. The only thing worse than being part of Vail, was not being part of Vail and the Epic pass.

As a business person I have wondered about the financials behind the Epic pass, as in the 90's when I was living in Europe I did an analysis of worldwide season pass pricing, and the average costs was around 16 full day tickers. The two passes hear are now down to 6-8 days for break even.

[yourneighborwiththecutedog]

i wish more skiers realized that having public transit to mountains is FAR more important than parking lot size. we need frequent busses to resorts, ESPECIALLY ones so close to metropolitan areas! bigger and cheaper parking lots are not the solution!!

[tommarks]

You mention a lot of good points in the video. I do wish hotel prices would have been covered.

[BrendanRankin]

Nothing's driving me to the backcountry more than this whole resort consolidation ( mono/duo-polization?).

After this year, I'm ditching Ikon/Epic for good and if I get a pass, it'll be for something at Indy resorts.

Regardless, I'll focus my time on getting prepped for the time I enjoy most: Spring into early Summer backcountry!

[Bohdisattva]

Used to live in denver. Now Chicago. Got epic local. Will ride wilmot here and there. Hit vail in early December, week after Presidents’ Day and then Tahoe April. Always go during week. Almost zero lift lines. This is the way boys and girls

[CrescentRollCarl]

The passes are a great value for those who ski a lot. As someone who lives up in the Colorado mountains, I really don't like it though. The corporate feel of areas like Vail, Brek, and Beaver Creek are pretty bad. Vail is like Downtown Disney. Of all the areas, Steamboat and Crested Butte still have that good feel. The last couple years I decided to support the indy resorts and bought a Loveland pass instead. I'll probably be doing the same in the future.

[pistolen]

4:24 $299 for a one day lift pass is insane! It's crazy how expensive the US is in general compared to Europe (I'm European) compared to a few years ago because of higher inflation, the strength of the US dollar and the ski duopoly. I feel like you need to make at least $500 000/year to justify paying $299/day. To compare, a one day pass in Val Thorens in France (a huge ski resort) is $69 and $57/day for 6 days.