Riven: When Remake Becomes Reinvention

Once again, Cyan hits me with another reason to think about the Myst series. Hey, I'm not complaining. The Riven Remake was more like a total reinvention, a chance to experience this story and world almost for the first time again. How often do we get that chance? How does it work out? How does it serve it's initial purpose? There's a lot to think on here,

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Dead Bird Site: @VZedshows (which I barely check anymore)

Thank you to Stumble Tree for the use of their music
Check out their album "Palindromed" on Spotify here:

Robyn Miller Tweet retrieved July 7 2024

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Music:

Selections from the Riven Remake OST by Robyn Miller
Selections from the Myst OST by Robyn Miller
"Save Room" from the Resident Evil (1996) OST by Makoto Tomozawa Koichi Hiroki and Masami Ueda
"Save Room" from the Resident Evil (2002) OST by Shusaku Uchiyama Makoto Tomozawa Misao Senbongi
"Going Through the Motions" by Stumble Tree

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[georgedyckiii]

I really appreciate the substance and spirit of this video!
It reminds me of the issue of translation, which points at some difference between the effable and ineffable. I feel like a good translation is all about admitting the failures of it and then trying to make the failure functional. Failures in translation can sometimes lead to new (still very much TRUE) understanding.
Great work as always, thanks.

[PostMesmeric]

I think we all have that one foundational game that's influenced our tastes and experiences so much, one that we (justifiably or not) fear is too susceptible to change when it inevitably gets "remade." Personally, I have a particular one in mind that I'm looking to examine further in the future, but that "remake vs reinvention" topic is something that's always fascinated me, so I was thrilled that you took that direction when looking at Riven and its reinvention. There is something a bit surreal seeing a game you love get another chance, but succeeding in ways that are no doubt different. Not better or worse, but different. Always love seeing your perspectives on these types of games, because it's clear you love them, and that leads to some of your best work. Thanks again, my friend.

[TheTyper]

This is an interesting conversation for me as I've been playing The Secret of Monkey Island for the first time recently. Similar to yourself, Myst was a pretty foundational game for me (Riven I just managed to miss over the decades while I played the other Myst sequels, as a result I think Exile became the favorite but I was obsessed with the original). There's a conversation to be had about how well a game ages for people in the know and those on the outside, especially *puzzle* games or adventure games. I'm playing the "remake" of Monkey Island, a lot of the game was modernized but in many ways it is just a really well done remaster that uses the same mechanics in a more intuitive way with a beautiful coat of paint applied to its visuals. It's a vibrant, wonderful game. And it's impossible for me to get my head it into every time I play it despite all its modernizations because, well, it's old. I kinda know what happens and I've played fantastic games that took the best lessons from the 90s adventure games.

Back when the *only* new game you had available to you was this fascinating world, you'd explore and click every inch of it even when it was very unclear what you were trying to do so much of the time (and Monkey Island games had hint systems to an extent wheras Myst and Riven *really* didn't). I did play Riven eventually back in 2018, but not for the puzzles (and sadly, by extension, the world), so much as to see what actually happens. And that obviously robs you of the experience because it's a world puzzle similar to Outer Wilds. You don't beat Riven without internalizing Riven. But I couldn't help it. I was 10 when I played Myst for the first time. I'm over two decades older now and not *impatient* with a game but lacking literal time to walk through genre shortcomings that I know too deeply, handicapped by modern designs that point you in the right direction so much more easily without insulting your intelligence. A game like Outer Wilds will utterly spoil someone who hasn't played Myst before with its discovery board revealing "confirmed useful" information as a way to get back to the game after a break. Games have been incredibly adept at teaching players compared to decades past, mostly. If someone were to re-tool Outer Wilds, change around how you approach certain things, but fundamentally still do the same thing (give you a puzzle in which you internalize a universe through space exploration and learning), with the same planets but acting different ways, you'd probably not be able to go back and play it again and desire to find the end. You still already learned and knew the answers. It's just a different version of the same beautiful magic trick.

I think this in particular gets complicated with older games or games that don't really rely on mechanics. I think a lot of people enjoy these Resident Evil remakes both because of how they've adapted the third person action gameplay into the maze-like survival horror mechanics, and because they're just really well made games. That's not quite the same as a mechnically retooled and expanded Dead Space remake (which is REALLY GOOD) or a mostly-imprint-perfect remake of System Shock (also REALLY GOOD). If you beat Shodan in System Shock 1 ten times in your life, doing it the eleventh in a stunning engine with modern controls might not really feel that appealing anymore.

I don't really have an answer so much as "Yeah....I feel this as I play older genres that are mostly remastered and retooled, especially ones that I've seen played out publicly."

[LB_]

I think Riven is probably the best setting for one of these games. The world is like a confusing puzzle because there are warring factions relying on obscurity as their form of security. There's actual reasons for things to be obtuse and weird, and the ways in which they are fit the setting and characters.

[thomasahearn]

Excellent video! Riven is not just my favorite game but one of my favorite works of fiction. I agree with pretty much everything you say in the video but I also feel this new version does add to the overall world building in ways that make a lot of sense. Especially when it comes to the numbering systems. At the end of the day, I'm just glad we got to revisit the world of Riven.

[ThatsRaf]

What could be possible better than 2 Rivens?
That's easy:
3 Rivens!

[gmg]

I’ve never heard of either of these games but I found this video interesting nonetheless.

[MochaRitz]

I had a really similar experience with the remake. I knew changes were gonna be made, but the further I got, the more I felt I was playing a companion piece, or a new game altogether. I ultimately left the experience satisfied, but with enough conflicting thoughts to make me uncertain of which version I would recommend to people going forward.

It's super weird to me because it feels like an inverse of their mentality when remaking Myst. Instead of making a bunch of artistic changes and keeping the puzzles 1:1, they kept the art incredibly faithful, and changed a ton about the puzzles. I have never felt like I played a more active role in Riven than with the remake, and it feels like that was their primary goal. The story felt so front and center this time around. So yeah, when the most engrossing version of the story is paired with shoddy human models that have dead eyes, I'm left feeling a little weird.

Being a returning player is a really strange experience, too. I ran into trouble more than once because places were not where they "should" be. This allowed a far more interesting experience than the Myst remake gave me, since I legitimately knew where everything was there, but the artistic changes allowed me to enjoy a fully immersive version of Myst regardless. Can't say I was thrilled to see that they removed the dentist chair though, considering I think the surreal imagery was a MASSIVE part of the original, but obviously it was a VR compensation. I'm glad that the art of Riven wasn't butchered, but the 2 remakes being handled so differently makes me wonder what other routes they could've taken for sure.

Anyway, great video man, looking forward to more! ✌️

[partepoxy]

Okay... This convinced me to try playing the remake.
The original feels so important to me; it was the first game to blow my mind and make me fall in love with the world, then grapple with the heartbreak of saying goodbye to it as it dies. (All of my subsequent favorite games share this melancholy thread.)
Maybe that's why I had qualms when I saw the trailer for the remake? Because I have already mourned Riven, and don't want to see it resurrected in mutated, Frankensteinian form?
But I prefer your conclusion: there are two Rivens now. Great!

[Yesnomu]

This was a great video! I certainly felt a bit irked about changes to Zelda OOT on the 3D version, and those were a lot less comprehensive than these seem to be! But you're right, I'm pretty intrigued to play it now, where I wouldn't really have been for a straight remake since I've played it before.

[rashkavar]

In a way, I wish there was the option (and assume there probably will be a mod making it at some point) to play the original experience. Because yeah, the remake is probably objectively better game design, because it has the benefit of some 27 years of game design advancement; graphics aren't the only thing that's gotten better in the world of video games. But also, the original was almost a form of anthropology rather than just a game. And it would be neat to let a new generation see that version of it too.

[plok]

I always liked adventure games (The Longest Journey being my favourite), but I never played a Myst game at any point until recently (just over one year ago) when I started with the realMyst: Masterpiece edition. I just knew they exist, because it's one of the og PC franchises. Now that I remember: Before that I played Firmament right when it released and well, ofc they stated it's from the creators of Myst & Riven and Firmament impressed me so much, that I had to take a dive.

Started playing the old Riven after Myst, but got stuck relatively early and heard about the remake coming soon, so I stopped and waited, because I didn't want to play them out of order. In the meantime I played Obduction and also started reading the three Myst novels. Then the remake came out and I was stunned. Now that I was a bit more into the lore, I could appreciate it at another level. Made it through with a few tips here & there (didn't find one or two spots to use the lens at), but the final puzzle was...too easy? I'm not sure, but it seems there are multiple ways to get to the same answer. For the lack of a better word: I feel kind of robbed, with an emphasis on "feel". I'll go back to the original and have a look for myself after I finish URU and the final Myst V.

I thoroughly enjoyed my time with Riven and it's my favourite of all the Cyan games (fingers crossed for V, but I haven't heard too many good things). My disappointment with the final puzzle may be irrational and just my fault, because I read it's so hard (in the original) and I was hyping it up as like the ultimate culmination of the cultural knowledge I gained over the course of the playthrough and big brain logic or something along those lines. Lol! I'm not sure, if that makes any sense.

Small anecdote: I was so blinded by thinking it's more than it really was. I figured out the position of the colored balls by literally scouting out the locations by foot. Seeing which island you can see from which point, which cardinal direction I'm looking at, where just geographically the "fast travel points" are on the map. I mean it was clear, that it was a map & and I also was very well aware of how many spaces each island occupies on the map from the other earlier puzzle, but when I realized the solution was right there the whole time (gold-colored dots) I was perplexed. Why do they give us the solution to the final puzzle hours beforehand? Yes, you still had to assign each symbol a color, but that's childsplay at that point for the player. That's why I said I felt robbed. Robbed of fulfilment basically. Now - I still don't know if it would've been different in the original or ever will be with what I know now.

[marenjones]

For me, inhabiting the space is so much of the appeal of games. It's why I love VR so much. The original Riven was great at that, and I look forward to playing the remake in VR, seeing those textures and experiencing the scale of the buildings. Some of the later titles did not succeed so well. In both versions of URU, I felt more like a tourist on a bus. The Cavern, beautiful graphically, and tantalizing lore-wise, was just out of reach, somehow. I hope, distant as such a project would be, that game gets the full remaining treatment.

[ShadwSonic]

I myself don't usually get remakes that don't add something new to the experience (the Zoombinis remake is probably the only exception, but that was due to the OG not working on modern machines), so hearing about this remake attempting to do such a thing does make me curious... but I don't know if I'd get it myself. Heck, despite backing the 2018 rerelease bundle, I still haven't beat the OG Riven yet!
The simple truth is that there's a lot of other games on my plate, both purchased and otherwise, let alone what urges I have to replay old goodies. There simply is not enough time to experience everything I'd consider worth experiencing, even if I dedicate ALL of my time to just mindlessly churning through it all. Which is... rather depressing, the idea that something is going to be missed like that.

[Ravenlock]

I love the takeaway you ended on here, and the only thing I'd add - not because it's lacking but because it's a thing I'm not sure how *I* feel about - is that it's been my experience that when pieces of art are foundational for folks, it's so often the case that they're hit differently by them than most (maybe any) other people that I have to think it's as much about what you brought to the art as what the art brought to you. Which isn't to downplay the significance or the quality and importance of the original Riven. Just... you were ready to find something in it, and build off what you found, and other people might or might not have had that experience with it anyhow. I'm as glad or more glad that *you* experienced original Riven, and went on to develop with it in your history, as I am that original Riven was there for you, if that makes sense. And I suspect the same thing will end up true of the reimagining, for at least some other folks.

[TheExileFox]

Myst VR had VR-specifc levers that kinda clashed with Channelwood. The Riven remake has integrated these very well. It's a much better remake than the last Myst remake.

[trinalmage]

A few months ago I played the original Myst, then the riven remake. As someone who has no nostalgia for either, that exact magic you describe is honestly still in there, it's just experienced differently, I think. After having played the original Riven, it's a shame they took out some of the nonlinearity, but you are just free enough for the feeling to still work.

My biggest gripes with it are honestly technical: the character models look somehow dated and the animation is bizarrely stiff, a lot of the mechanisms you interact with which used to involve some movement of the mouse you just kind of click and the range for you to click things always seemed a little too short, and going to the starry expanse, while sometimes a welcome breather, started feeling like a chore near the end, especially with the load times. These are the things which make me wish for a better remake, but, honestly, as it stands it does a lot right.

I can't fault a single puzzle change, honestly. spoilers but having Gehn write down the numbers chronologically in his journal as dates was an incredibly helpful clue to me. There's a lot of these subtle, incredibly sensible but also surprisingly helpful little changes littered throughout that just make it an easier experience to recommend to new players.

[DuelScreen]

We like what we first experienced. Every other version of that thing feels alien because we are comparing it to our first experience. My first Superman was Christopher Reeve. My first Batman was Michael Keaton. Your first Resident Evil 2 was the remake so every other versions feels inferior. This is part of adulthood and the flipside of nostalgia.

[epicfox]

Have to say, strong disagree with your take on the remake. While it made some discussions I would have done differently, the magic in my opinion is all still there and expanded upon significantly. And I’m a massive fan of the original. Still I love the channel and all the Cyan content.

[goodiesguy]

It's the removal of the FMV sequences that ruin the new one for me. The CGI models just aren't good IMO.