Sword vs Feder - The HEMA myth

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WARNING: The advice and movements shown in this video are for informational and educational purposes only. Consult a health professional before engaging in any exercise or martial arts program.

[swiyth]

Well said. I think the key is "if you know what you're doing". Feders are useful tools, and good for keeping your partner safe; which is why I think Sigis are the best beginner weapons, and even tournament weapons. But if you're interested in the H of HEMA, you need to know what a real sword feels like, because the way they handle is very different; some principles only make sense when the weapon is close to the weight and balance of a historical sword.

[ukaszgrzesik]

I went with Black Fancer steel standard longsword for my training sword and I am very happy with it. In fact it is so far the only piece of equipment so far that I am fully satisfied with.
It does have quite a bit of flex to it and thick flat (not rolled) tip while retaining overall longsword look. Used also for sparing, no problems so far, no ratling or major damage but I did manage to very slightly bend one of guards.
I am by no means expert so cannot really give usefull opinion on matters of functionality and realizm in handling. Hovewer I would not dismiss aesthetics, especially for beginners. It is "the cool factor" that brings people in at the start, dedication and mastery comes later.

[Stampianirrationalism]

Never understood feder vs sword shape debate. Use what’s safe and try different tools to learn how they handle. Use sharps for cutting practice, feders for sparring and faster technique. Try some stiffer blades for technique practice or solo training and so on. Mix it up just use each one with respect and observe the corresponding safety practices. But variety may help improve understanding and is in my opinion part of the fun 😁. Nice video 👍

[thescholar-general]

Yeah I think that people really need to differentiate between something that looks like a sword and something that has similar dynamic properties of a sword.

I do still think that many feders tend to balance too close to the guard and tend to be on the long side when compared to original swords, but overall much better than training with something like shinai back in the good old days.

Too bad that the feder which best matches a real sword doesn’t have more flex to it.

[jasonjames]

Great video! I have to agree that the aesthetics (though important) don't mean a thing compared to handling. Some people want optimization for the current tournament "game." While others want something that approximates the handling and feel of an historical, sharp sword. I think your advice for beginners operating in a vacuum to start with a federschwert is good.

My first longsword simulator is a Arms & Armor fechterspiel and I love it. It is based on 16th century training "feder" and gives me one window into swordsmanship of a time and place. I have a second longsword simulator that is custom built by Krieger Armory in the USA that is very similar to the Fiore Sentinel that they sell (my custom was before that existed). It has very similar characteristics to some of the earlier 15th century longswords and part of my choice for this simulator was aesthetics (sorry, I wanted pretty). But this second longsword simulator gives insight into a different aspect and time of longsword fencing.


I'm pretty sure I'll end up with at least a few more longsword simulators to explore other aspects of longsword fencing. And if I really get into the "game" of tournaments, I will likely get a feder that is more optimized for that type of play.

[themightypaw]

Its hard to delineate differences when 99%of the core concepts are interchangeable in practice and sparring. The only thing i can pin point is the difference of angle for blade taper and the "schilt". All the parts are still there, pommel, grip, crossguard, blade - and in similar weights and length.

[bensteinhauser]

Great video! As someone who's mainly interested in the tournament aspect of HEMA, I've never understood the obsession with gear's apperance. I just want something that is safe (for myself and my opponent) and handles well.

Also, if I really wanted a sharp that handles like my feder, it wouldn't be impossible to find/comission.

[ianalexander]

I would agree with all that you've said here; if you're using the shape of schilt that you are. A lot of feders have the schilt which flares out as a blade catcher and i think, if you're using one of those, you're missing a fundemental part of training as you won't learn to keep you're hands safe.

[typhoonandrew]

Thought this was a great point to be made, and respect the view which keeps your training partners safe.

[johnmrke]

I am still learning about HEMA and this is my first time encountering a federschwert, so I am going to "like" the video and subscribe just because I learned something new.

[jasonbaldwin]

I would not recommend a Sigi King for new people. They are relatively tip heavy and hard hitting compared to feders.

[SixDeadZeroHEMA]

Whilst I obviously believe that "real" swords look much cooler and I love them very much, people seem to get really hung up on disliking federschwert as they're not "accurate". For /training/ HEMA, federschwert are arguably more historically accurate - they are a historical training tool. They're not a modern invention. They're designed by contemporary fencers to be as similar as possible to the "real" swords of the period.

For actually fighting with a sword, of course a "real" sword is better... but you're gonna run out of training partners pretty fast.

[damir_bakhteev]

Awesome video! Clear, short and well argumented. Thank you very much! From Russia, with best regards.

[wardmatthew]

If you are in the US, the feder I recommend is Regenyei standard feder. It's not the best, it's not the cheapest but it's the best for the price and is sold in by most US Distributors. I would stay away from the Purple Heart brand, they are overly heavy and the center of balance feels very high. Chlebowski are great but they are more expensive than the Regenyei and the differences are less than the PH Brand. Beyond that try to find a friends feder you like and buy that.

[CrispyCircuits]

Very helpful information about the tips and flexibility.

[JohnMcKLV]

I've had a Regenyei standard for a while and am looking to upgrade. I don't *need* to at all, as it works fine and allows me to train and spar. But anyway, I'm torn in a few directions when looking for my next. My group is a Meyer group, and the instructor dislikes shorties. At the same time, my own historical interest is more 15th century, with shorter weapons. So I am trying to decide between a King shorty (Much better model of 15th century swords for length and balance) and a Concept or Gothic standard (for length and faster handling, and softer cuts competitively).

Maybe I should just get both ;)

[BenHosac]

Great advice! Some folks at my club have brought up a kind of graduation from feder and specifically Sigi Feders as they continue to train and enter more tourneys.

If you have any opinions on safe thrusting in a tourney setting I'd love to hear it. If one is moving away from a lighter Sigi Lichty for instance due to weaknesses vs heavier blades, what is the ultimate compromise and direction to go in without compromising safety. It's a conundrum; we don't want to injure our fencing friends.

[jaredbaker]

That's the Ensifer Kron, yes? Would you recommend it for a newbie? I very much want to learn to handle a real sword.

[Zodd]

Full agree. A sword is a sword. And is a mean to an end.

[liquidyschitz]

Definitely love the traditional sword style over a feder