Thalia Wheatley - Free Will and Decision Making

What is the relationship between free will and decision-making, the capacity of individuals to select among options or choices usually based on certain criteria. It would seem that, in principle, decision-making can exist outside of free will (such as in a computer), but free will cannot exist without the capacity to make decisions.



Thalia Wheatley is an Associate Professor of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Dartmouth College.


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[gavaniacono]

That the Professor refused to commit to a position indicates strongly that she doesn't know.

[nivekvb]

We have will, but whether it's free, or not, I'm still working on.

[longcastle]

It may be like Nietzsche seems to suggest (in my reading of him at least) that we have lots of different _wills_ -- different paths all vying for our interest and attention -- some stronger, some weaker... We choose one... Like all the possibilities opened up before a probability wave. It's only when the wave collapses that all the dominos line up behind it... Giving the illusion, of determinism? : )

[bozo]

It seems to me that most decision making is unconscious. Especially the big decisions. Even when you try to do it very deliberately, it still seems to me that the conscious part is largely afterthought.

[chayanbosu]

Well those who are claming free will is an illusion then the question arrises who's illusion? On the otherhand if everything is determined by neural firings then why do we believe this statement " Freewill is an illusion ".No reason, because it is also determined.

[AMorgan]

Excellent talk, these are the right questions to ask. I have no doubt that humans will understand this soon. The answers will be epic.

[Jalcolm]

We measure molecular kinetic energy as heat. From the point of the molecules, they are not hotter... they are going faster. Similarly, as was said, a level of complexity in decision making will conscript so much neurological function that awareness becomes present as part of the process. This will, obviously, provide an opportunity to share the circumstance with others, also aware, of the decision making process. Many more awarenesses can be harvested to work on the problem. It is confounding the subtleties of the problem to ask whether "consciousness is causal." The neural activity and the awareness ARE THE SAME THING. Just as heat and kinetic energy are the same thing, but experienced differently because of the difference in point of view.

[ptimal]

I think we're built to operate largely on default, but have the ability to operate consciously, and can consciously adjust the defaults. So just because you did something without being aware of it doesn't mean you weren't behind it's action. Some aspect of "you" may have instructed the automatic aspect of you to choose in that way.

[irrefudiate]

We don't decide, necessarily, to breath or cough, but we may decide to stand up. I'm deciding to respond to this post with certain words that will convey my thoughts. Parsing what is autonomous and what is deliberate, seems like trying too hard.

[Bill..N]

It's my opinion that Thalia is being intellectually honest here..She realizes these ideas are theoretical and may not be right..An excellent example of the humble nature that good scientists possess.. From the perspective of neuroscience AND physics, it is very probable that free will (In the classical sense) doesn't exist..I would suggest however, that the cerebral cortex IS CAPABLE of acting nearly independently on certain important environmental stimuli, but as Thalia suggests even THESE sorts of reactions are in concert with more deeply hardwired programming..Very good interview, thanks..

[nivekvb]

We choose an Italian restaurant because from memory we know the food tastes good, also the because menu looks good, or we've been there before, or it's the only one around. But I think we do have a tiny bit of free will which occurs over time.

[NeverHappened]

“A man can do as he wills, but not will as he wills.”

[relaxisasinaturequran]

Free will is compelling an illusion. (hadith narrated Thalia♥️).

[johnpayne]

Plausible counter example:
“Muscle memory” allows a great musician perform, but not necessarily improvise.
To add rigor: Iylia Prigogene demonstrated far from equilibrium thermodynamically open systems can undergo state bifurcations leading to “emergent” properties.
Excellent series!

[jamesruscheinski]

Are there two types of decisions in brain; subconscious decisions of inner body processes, and conscious decisions to act outwardly on environment?

[Dismythed]

We give weight to ideas and objects in comparison to other ideas and objects. This is where "weighing" comes from. This is hierarchical. This is usually an easy distinction, so the decision seems automatic, but it is only automated by the easy distinction in weight in our minds.

But some distinctions are not so clear. Two disperate objects or ideas may in fact carry equal weight, and so then we have to start comparing finer features in order to find a distinction in weight. This moves our brains from a near automated process to one of deliberation because it requires more of our mental processes.

Yes, this is very much a significant part of free will. The other being limited willpower, in which we are controlled by neither physical automated thinking (no willpower) and intellectual automated thinking or pure logic (absolute will). With it, we are required to manage our willpower as a limited resource. This makes us have to decide whether to exert our will or let bodily processes determine our course in order to conserve the resource for more important decisions. Through this, free will arises as this engages us in the process of whether to exert our will or not.

[cloudoftime]

There is a distinction between "there is a reason for", and "was intentionally caused for a purpose." Just like the distinction between, "your cat died because it ran into the street and got hit by a car", and, "your cat died because someone saw it in the street and wanted to run it over with their car." You have to be careful with these colloquialisms used in informal language. You can infer the bias toward intentionality when he asks, "so why have that?" This is something people say when agency and intention are assumed for something.

That said, intuitively the outward process of deliberation is socially advantageous. We don't just make decisions internally, we do it intersubjectively. So having the sensation of "freedom" within this works to individuate groups members by the information they provide.

I'll throw this question out to the group again: what would "freedom" even mean in the concept "free will"? I get that people want to believe they have it, but what could it possibly even be? How could it possibly work? What does a "free" choice even look like?

The principle of sufficient reason doesn't require that things are intended, just that something was preceded by other events. If a rock rolls down a hill it doesn't mean someone threw the rock intending for it to roll down the hill. It could just mean that gravity, erosion, and tectonic movement occurred and resulted in the rock gaining enough momentum to roll down the hill. The earthquake caused the rock to roll down the hill, but it didn't intend for this to happen.

[jamesruscheinski]

Could the capacity to make decisions that act outwardly on the environment be emergence of conscious / mind?

[jamesruscheinski]

For emergent conscious / mind to act outwardly on environment, would a collective network of neurons be needed?

[jamesruscheinski]

Whenever there is a decision in the brain, whether conscious or subconscious, is there an energy spike in neuron, or what is happening when brain makes a decision?