How Rhetoric Shapes Your Opinions

The Michael Shermer Show # 426

Robin Reames breaks down the major techniques of rhetoric, pulling back the curtain on how politicians, journalists, and “journalists” convince us to believe what we believe—and to talk, vote, and act accordingly.

Understanding these techniques helps us avoid being manipulated by authority figures who don’t have our best interests at heart. It also grants us rare insight into the values that shape our own beliefs.

Reames and Shermer discuss: rhetoric vs. facts (rhetorical truths vs. empirical truths) • the point of reason (to understand reality or to persuade?) • Canons of rhetoric: invention, arrangement, style, memory, delivery • bullshitters vs. liars • induction and deduction • rhetorical, ideological, and metaphorical thinking • how to debate contentious issues

Robin Reames is associate professor of English at the University of Illinois at Chicago, specializing in rhetorical theory and the history of ideas. Her new book is The Ancient Art of Thinking for Yourself: The Power of Rhetoric in Polarized Times.

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[lawrencejwinkler]

Too many commenters dont get it. Some have profoundly ignorant comments.

Her book is quite challenging. The last chapters are basically your final exam testing whether you actually now know how to apply the various lenses to elucidate common ground and the real differences given you have been introduced to formal rhetoric theory.

What I enjoyed about this interview is reames highlighting shermers inability to consider other points of view and his unwillingness to change how he thinks about issues before latching on his particular closely held dogmas.

My legal training included understanding negotiations which is what most lawyers spend their time doing. The Harvard negotiation project materials were my bible. Formal rhetoric theory was never part of my education. Should have been. Framing the issues would have benefited.

Studying Western legal thinking took me to Plato and Aristotle and the whole of legal teaching is based on the Socratic method. Reames book puts all this in context placing it in contrast with the Sophists of ancient Athens.

[gooddaysahead]

The stories we tell ourselves (believe) are the lenses through which we judge the veracity of information we believe to be true.

[hueyiroquois]

30:05 Why do pro-abortion people always frame the argument as a women's rights issue and ignore that anti-abortion people believe that a human fetus deserves as much protection, maybe more, as any other human? John Stossel is probably the only pro-abortion who framed the argument honestly, and I found him very persuasive.

[sulljoh]

Dave Rubin shook my belief in the power of conversation to converge on the truth

Conversation seems to make you converge with whoever you're talking to

[benjaminperez]

I enjoyed this conversation. Michael Shermer, if you'd like record another conversation with another rhetorician, maybe do one with Erec Smith.

[charlie-qhll]

Rhetoric is used to persuade not elucidate or edify so it stands to reason that rhetoric is used to tell people what to think and not make them better thinkers.

[yazanasad]

Value hierarchy

Stasis theory: ask questions
1) question on fact
2) question on definitin
3) definition on quality (intensity)
4) auestion on state response (many people focussing on this one only)

Metaphors as influencing you. Today see states as im a battle (realist IR)

[stevenmyers]

Great conversation! I'd like to talk with her for another 5 hours or so!

[sulljoh]

I'm actually interested in what's true
Not just a "better story"
A truer view of reality

[sulljoh]

The idea that you can always link evidence/data to back up any claim could be true

If so, we who think we're atheists/skeptics because we're following the evidence where it leads are deluding ourselves. That's hard to accept

[DeconvertedMan]

The rhetoric of this is to accept the rhetoric in this. :D

[albionicamerican]

So why doesn't rhetoric make diversitarians behave better?

[Macceee]

Hello Mr. Shermer, I like your work and voice of reason. Please investigate "trance medium Elaine Thorpe" from the UK, who claim she's "channeling" her spirit guide Jonathan who lived in the 1800's and does some deep voice BS (likely from voice practice). It would be very appreciated if you at least considered looking into this case. She has her own channel on Youtube, feel free to take a look at it and offer your opinion. Best wishes /Macce

[kevanmccutcheon]

This was a remarkably unsatisfying interview. She’s one of the few people who, after speaking, convinces me that her book is not worth looking at because she is so vague and makes such anodyne and ambiguous statements. I learned very little except that Cicero came up with four good categories to pay attention to regarding debates. I hope you follow up with another person who teaches about rhetoric in a more clear fashion.

[Besseloff]

This was a big fat nothing. I learn much more by reading a Shakespeare play.

[Real_Joe_Rogan]

There is an underwater pyramid beneath Rock Lake Wisconsin that the natives referred to as "under watee teepees." For the longest time, it was taken as just native American folklore, nothing serious or worthwhile, until indeed, it was discovery in the 20th century. There aee pyramids from China to Peru completely underwater that have since been discovered. If this isn't evidence of long-lost civilizations or a global civilization, i dont know what is.

[DanHowardMtl]

Shermer always goes back to that pizza story? I wonder why? Maybe he partakes.