I love this. The amount of common sense is almost hilarious.
vladislav
Love your work. The simple act of reading escapes calvies
djohnz
Love you Chris! I am glad you are reviewing that classic debate.
FutureNotFixed
Chris, imo you won the debate at the point Smokey stopped speaking 'to' you, started arguing against you but only speaking to the host, while referring to you in the 3rd person.
It's hilarious, bc you never get your feathers ruffled and never stop smiling.
I love it!
shredhed
Just starting to watch this, can’t wait to see what happens!
Brandonhornick
An apt and timely point.
I just got into it with someone wanted to make a "joke" via a parting shot with a hashtag on "Semi Palagian memes".
I pointed out it's hard to laugh at a joke so clearly designed to disparage via the genetic fallacy and heresy boogeyman tactic... I don't expect some collective laughter when I walk into a bar full of black people and use the N word while saying they're wrong because "they're all lazy... hahahahahaaa"
He then proceeded to make my point by asking if I thought Ken Johnson was a legitimate Augustine scholar... you can't make this stuff up, another guilt-by-association move designed to look smooth and condiscending instead of actually addressing any actual issues... at all.
But it's an ongoing argument. I told him that he needs to stop making my points for me, it's depressing, but he keeps doing it. I even sent him a lead on a PDF of a christian history journal article on the history of the semi palagian term hoping he'd arose himself and stop embarrassing himself while smuggly just assuming he's right unflinchingly.
It's almost sad. They think they're actually THINKING, but it's all just virtue signalling while trying to look cool.
It's pure theological hipsterism.
ravissary
Yay! You used the music of our mutual YouTube friend.
Talented dude... so weird, but awesome.
ravissary
So even if you grant that God "knows all things" in the most absolutest possible sense, the only reason to think that that includes every detail of a certain future is if you believe that in some way the future already exists and can be considered a "thing".
crisjones
Summary-
Non-calvanist: "The text does say what you think it means".
Calvanist: "The text doesn't mean what it actually says".
brotherthunder
A recent video from Leighton will be addressed shortly too regarding his condescension. He thinks he is being gracious by conceding open theists can be Christians while he continues speaking FOR open theists while not letting open theists speak for themselves. (His buddy Mike claims he is being generous to us. How insulting.) I'm waiting for Dr. Flowers to engage with one of us and to permit us to explain our own views in a debate. It is high time Dr. Flowers stops playing 'kumbaya' with open theists and James White, while he will not cease relying on Calvinist arguments while labeling open theists as being on the 'same track' as Calvinists. I've got a clip of Leighton protesting how James White labels him with guilt by association, while Leighton continues publicly showing a condescending pat on our heads while continually MISREPRESENTING the open view (as held by both us, John Sanders, Hasker, Enyart, and Richard Rice). Leighton keeps using Boyd as being representative of our views because Leighton can still get away with NOT ENGAGING with informed open theists while demonizing the open view.
FutureNotFixed
They claim that scripture was written for a general human understanding. The writers of scripture did not write about the metaphysical nature of reality in the manner their philosophy requires. Then how do they justify their beliefs about God's attributes, that were never written about, especially by the writers who would have known (or maybe Paul was just ignorant). The same writers for which it would have been incumbent for them to tell us, since scripture was written for normal people. This is dizzying.
jeffreybailey
I’d love to come on your podcast. Like said before. Have you humbled yourself and asked the lord to open the scriptures to you? Still debating nursery rhymes it seems lol.
Boisezxr
I honestly don't think Smokey is a calvinist.
He's a classical theist, true, but he's somewhere between an Arminian, a molinist (I think), and some kind of psychopath or narcissist.
ravissary
God knows all things as in what is in people’s hearts and minds. We as humans don’t know what is in others hearts and minds. We are created in Gods image. So God and ourselves don’t know the future. It doesn’t exist as of right now. God can decree something and make sure it happens. He works with humans to make His decree come to pass. God is open to achieve His will. If Calvinism or Neo-Platonism is true then God had already preordained every conversation with Adam for eternity if Adam didn’t sin - if that even makes sense. God is open. Open theism or dynamic omniscience is the Biblical view of the Bible.
0:27:12
0:27:22