J.L. Schellenberg - Atheism's Best Arguments?

Atheism fields two kinds of arguments denying the existence of God: arguments that refute so-called 'proofs' of God's existence and arguments that affirmatively support the truth claims of atheism. This first seeks weaknesses or fallacies in pro-God arguments; the second seeks to show why atheism alone makes sense. Different atheists offer different arguments.

[bebeezra]

_"What is it: is man only a blunder of God, or God only a blunder of man."_ - Twilight of the Idols

[maxnullifidian]

What about the argument from logical incoherence?

[GodEqualstheSquaRootof-]

If god exists, then he's trying really hard not to be found and I think we should respect that; respect boundaries dude.

[cougar]

Any argument that goes like “God is supposed to be x, so why would God do/allow y” makes no sense. We have no idea what God really is, so that argument is a non-starter. Our probably wrong ideas about something don’t prove that something doesn’t exist.

[bluewidow]

Were there actually an all powerful, all knowing god, he wouldn’t need humans to argue his existence. Then there’s that small matter of evidence ; there is none.

[chewyjello]

We already live in a world without free will and we are perfectly happy with the illusion of it.

[B.S...]

How can there be an omni-benevolent god when there is so much gratuitous evil in the world? Christianity promises eternal life for those who love god but what about the soul that rejects faith because of unjust suffering? That soul is condemned to torture for eternity.
Why is god so desperate for love and so brutal when he doesn't get it? Is this perfect benevolence and justice?

[bipolarminddroppings]

Atheism's best argument is "look around you..."

Everything that has ever been explained, in the history of humanity, turned out to be NOT MAGIC.

[poksnee]

Why would an atheist argue with a theist?

There is no proof a god exists.

[adammakarenko]

If free will exists then how did Jesus predict all kinds of future events? If the future is decided then how can we have free will? .. This is a really good argument that wasn't mentioned. And the Bible is full of future predictions.. which makes no sense for a free will God

[ericjohnson]

Argument from horrors? (do I have that right?)
If God were empathetic to our suffering, he would prevent it? Except that's not God's job, it's ours. And it's also not true that all suffering is bad. But be that as it may, We don't like being in biological bodies that can hurt... but if they didn't when we are making mistakes, we wouldn't learn from them. Pain is information. We're supposed to use it. Feedback loops exist for a reason.
Is God selective as to who he "saves" and who he lets continue on the mortal path to the cessation of life? Probably. Those he "saves" he expects more of, because they're capable. And it's not like those who are "saved" never have to die... we do, and will.

[abolfazlnazemi]

I love J.L. Schellenberg. What he says makes prefect sense.

[yarngod]

And what if all you said is Limited perspective in a big big game which you can't even start understanding?

[alanbird]

So, if humans lived for a thousand years, under that system it may be better for the child if the parent only made themselves known for the last one hundred years?

So, God the ultimate good, the Summon Bonum, the reason for existence itself, is best hidden from his creation. How can the ultimate good, be something we are better without at any time?

Even if that concept made sense, how do we know it is true? Surely it is nothing more than blind guess work. If it is not, then god is not hidden. But the whole argument is to explain why god is hidden.

[et]

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, [g] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Romans1:18-23 esv

[sedmercado]

Schellenberg gives a very unconvincing outline of his arguments here. I have never heard the argument from hiddenness so weakly presented. Maybe it was because of the lack of time or maybe he can write better than he can talk or maybe the argument really is just that unimpressive.

[wberckmann]

Mr Schellenberg appears to be a thoughtful, honest and gracious person. His biggest challenge seems to boil down to the belief in the reality of evil and of a material universe. Once we come to terms with that mistaken belief, and see that Christianity demonstrates the supremacy of good and that that is the world of Spirit, we can then perceive the perfect universe that he would like to believe exists. Unfortunately, traditional Christian theology has failed to insist on doing the work that Jesus taught us to do and expected us to do and so has failed to demonstrate the truth that would be joyfully welcomed by someone principled as Mr. Schellenberg clearly is. His real complaint is with the failure of so many Christians to follow Christ.

[daddada]

1. Hiddenness; because you can not always be around your love ones, there freewill will gone..
2. Horror; because other is too afraid of death... death is like God moving you from this place to another place... about suffering its God making you stronger...
3. Freewill; it a free gift, ability to choose.. God's suggestion is your choose good.

[deepakkapurvirtualclass]

Let me take the example of God.

God has all the power, all the goodness, all the knowledge 'by default'. He hasn't worked hard for it. It's like a 'free fund'. He should have given 'everything' to us also, by default.


Similarly, we have consciousness/free will as a 'free fund'. Thoughts come and go in our mind on their own. I myself don't know what thought will come into my mind, say after 5 minutes, 10 minutes etc. It's a 'free fund'.

When thoughts come to our minds 'on their own', it 'seems' to us that we have thought them 'consciously'...

[vgrof]

Contrivance, contrivance, contrivance on the part of one defending the existence of God. Put a sock in it!