Discussion | Chemical poisoning

#eNCA Courtesy #DStv403

[Jilliberation]

I think I figured it out. It was after hours, and the bouncers had (unsuccessfully) tried to clear the premises. One of the survivors claimed that everyone was 'tear gassed'; which is highly unlikely, as it is difficult for an average person to obtain tear gas cannisters and tear gas is generally known to be non-lethal. It would take MULTIPLE cannisters set off, simultaneously, with all the doors and windows locked to prevent escape. Even then, the majority would probably find a way to survive. I'm guessing that SOMEONE probably got the bright idea to mix a couple household cleaners together, to drive everyone out. The gas produced from the chemical reaction would cause everyone in the building to experience a burning discomfort when breathing, and then they would likely elect to leave the establishment of their own accord.

During autopsy, medical examiners noticed that all 21 victims displayed identical evidence of tissue damage, indicative of some sort of chemical poisoning. When chlorine and ammonia are mixed together, the resulting Chloramine gas is a highly toxic mucosal irritant that's potentially deadly in high enough concentrations. Even when inhaled in low concentrations, it burns the sinuses, esophagus, and lungs. It also burns the eyes and causes them to water profusely. It could easily be mistaken for tear gas, by someone who has never been exposed to actual tear gas. Chloramine gas is also heavier than air. It settles into the low spots and would remain contained on the first floor. In one report, it was mentioned that the person doing the books on the 2nd floor was unaffected, and oblivious. The gas had most likely dissipated by the time he went back downstairs and discovered all the bodies.

For public health reasons, places that serve food and beverages, purchase highly concentrated, commercial grade/strength cleaning supplies in bulk (because they go through it so fast, especially if it's being used to render water safe to drink). It would be really easy for someone unfamiliar with 'industrial strength' chemicals to miscalculate the volume and proportions necessary to cause the desired level of irritation, while remaining non- lethal. There's a good chance that way too much industrial strength chemicals got dumped together, causing a fast-acting lethal concentration of chloramine gas, and the teenagers were too bombed to escape before they succumbed.

Anyway, everyone will know what actually happened, soon enough. One thing is for sure: these deaths were not self-inflicted, and probably not a result of anything willingly ingested (effects and results would be varied, depending on the amount, and time of consumption). It had to be a gas of some sort, because it affected everyone simultaneously (with carbon monoxide poisoning ruled out, because cause of death from CO poisoning presents as asphyxiation with a conspicuous absence of mucosal irritation).

But then again, I could be wrong. A mass murder situation is not entirely out of the question. However, I doubt if everyone just sat around while bouncer lady sprayed each of them in the face with something that knocked them all out. The police probably already know WHAT killed those kids. Now, I think they're just keeping pertinent details under wraps, until they figure out WHO....

[Bipod]

Ok so there is no official cause of death as yet.
Why are we having this discussion on carbon monoxide poisoning?

[nastassjabotha]

Amazing how they call it “ poisoning” if it is underage drinking

[motlalepulesofe]

May you're soul's rest in peace, little Angel's. May all families involved find solace in these trying and unbearable time's together with the pain that goes with it.I'll be thrilled if the tavern is shut completely and the irresponsible " adults " are thrown in jail!!

[rosekhoza]

Thanks doctor, but still it doesn't make sense to me what are you explaining, here we are talking about the absence that is very dangerous to any human beings, but in this case was only the kids that was affected not the adults, can other doctors help me because I really don't get it from this doctor.. please.. please

[melissadc]

This isn’t the 70’s where fuel had up to 80% carbon monoxide. Since there were so many suicides being done by sitting inside a car in a closed garage with the engine running, the percentage of carbon monoxide in fuel went from 80 to 2. So for that 2% to have a deadly effect means there can’t be any air ventilation to blow that 2% away & a person needs to be breathing that full 2% into their lungs for awhile. I know this because my best friend committed suicide this way.

So where would high volumes of monoxide be coming from?
Science says this isn’t possible.

Those of you who remember or are still aware that there’s a brain inside your head - it’s time to start using the damn thing!

[daledevernon]

I doubt if this is carbon monoxide poisoning because it only affected the children. What about the other people who were in the Tavern?

[chabalichabali]

I remember how last yr similar cases we blamed on covid

[sheri]

😏 please, we need to use the generators, because of eskom... You can't keep scaring people, what else must they use? 😏 You should report on how actually eskom isn't even the problem or to blame for this stage 6 load shedding...

[trevorcornelius]

No law and Order in this country!! If there was laws to stop at 12pm....This could have been prevented!!! Police could have done much better!!

[creatorofallthings]

I'm not a doctor but that was shit obvious

[taniakeen]

Keeping generators inside can cause this Texas had deaths last year from generators

[giuseppepennisi]

Grab all the members of parliament. Place a generator in the room with a small window three floors above ground level. Everytime we have load shedding the generator kicks in. Problem solved. No one’s accountable and Eskom just sorted the country out for good. 😂

[mbhekitembe]

If you are not insinuating that Carbon Monoxide was the cause what is the hurry in speculating. The urge of wanting to be the first to report has lowered journalistic ethics to a sorry state.

[maxieruckert]

It takes a lot to explain for the doctor to say nothing. RIP little souls.

[zameisie]

How is it that not even one person in and around the tavern knew how to perform CPR

[kgoty]

It's good to see eNCA using natural lighting.. Carbon neutral 👌

[sheri]

At first you people made it sound like everyone in the building collapsed or passed out and does... Yesterday I hear people are jumping out of windows... What is wrong with you people?

[shireeztitus]

How can someone keep saying TARVEN WHEN ITS TAVEN. I've never heard of a TARVEN before.

[rdesousa]

carbon monoxide is called the silent killer for a reason as rarely will anyone realize they busy succumbing to its effects & as far as i know doesnt attack respiratory system so violently as to cause a person to choke & be unable to breathe, as suggested in previous reports which is why the anchor makes the point of saying they not insinuating that this is the cause as its inconsistent with the typical profile of CO poisoning, however i guess its possible but highly unlikely as the level of suffering & lack of survivors is indicative of something more potent than CO because again they were aware something was being sprayed & as mentioned CO is tasteless & odorless which they wouldnt of been aware of

On that point though if something was sprayed in their faces/gas dispersed in the room that caused the initial panic, one would have to start thinking about what other devices could of been used to dispense a chemical as an aerosol...for example i imagine a smoke machine could of been used with fluid someone spiked & when considering the fact that it was a party celebrating end of exams this would seem plausible even if it is uncommon for a typical tavern to have a smoke machine, afterall with the kids being regular patrons & hosting parties often would indicate that this isnt your typical tavern so it wouldnt be farfetched to think that the owner took steps to make his tavern more appealing to youngsters & investing in lighting/effects & sound so this should be investigated especially if a smoke machine was found