Your Underfloor Heating Could Be Better - Here Is How.

#UFH #underfloorheating #radiantheating

In this video, I show you how to bring your underfloor heating to a modern standard and how to make sure it will be compatible with a heat pump in the future.

[enm]

Childish I know, but first, that said your installs are a perfect example of craftsmanship and attention to detail, thank you for your skill

[andrewmillwardwatford]

It is often the case that when the boiler is running on night setback a mixer will be required on the radiator circuit. This will depend upon the Delta t at the boiler and the design flow temperatures for the radiators in relation to the underfloor heating. A good rule to remember is that the underfloor heating will require a flow temperature to its mixer higher than its return to temperature by the Delta t at the boiler or the hydraulic separation. It's also worth noting that the hydraulic separation works in exactly the same way as a mixing valve for the highest temperature zone in operation. So for example if radiators and underfloor are working at 55 and a delta t of 20 for the radiators and 35 at a delta t of five while the boiler has a delta t of 20; the underfloor heating mixer would require a flow temperature to arrive at its variable temperature mixer of 50 degrees and the radiators would require the temperature of 55. To achieve this the boiler would not run at 55 but would run at a higher temperature to feed the low loss header where the first mixing would take place for the system. Here the higher flow rate produced within the system would be blended to 55 degrees to suit the radiator system and the underfloor heating variable temperature mixer would reduce the temperature from 55 to 35. The problem occurs when we want to run the radiator zone at a lower temperature during night setback for example. At this point we may need a flow temperature to the radiators lower than the flow temperature for the underfloor heating. In this case we would need a variable temperature mixer on the radiator circuit to enable the radiator circuit to run at the lower temperature then the underfloor heating. This phenomena is not an issue when you're working on heat pumps where the Delta t of the underfloor and the radiators and the heat pump are matched. I learn this the hard way when I had to return to a number of jobs to fit an additional mixer on the radiator circuits following complaints from customers of overheating bedrooms during night setback. There are ways of coping with this problem for example on the veesman boiler you can turn the radiators circuit off at night time to prevent the issue but many people want to have the use of nights at the radiator circuit to prevent excessively cold bedrooms and this control his only achieved if it is fitted with the variable temperature mixer.

[Josh__Stevens]

I absolutely love your attitude and you are 100% correct on your talk about old methods and people not wanting to learn or expand their knowledge. As a Technical Manager (apprentice served electrician) for a business that’s owns 6 holiday parks, there are some really good methods and mindsets that you convey in your videos (weather comp etc) that i will look to deploy on our parks to make existing systems more efficient. We have loads of accommodation with UFH and Heat Pumps as well as traditional LPG Boilers. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!

[robharrison]

Well done. This is what I am promoting through my business too. The Vaillant controls work very well and I won’t give customers the option of anything else. I sell efficient systems not half arsed ideas. I have sold system control to customers that had boilers put in and left on S or Y plan.
I have also asked other installers why they don’t do weather compensation. They belittled the customers by saying they wouldn’t understand it!
I find the older customers more receptive to upgrading. One last year, after we removed a floor standing ideal and put a new boiler, 2 rad zone and hot water, weather compensating system in, said his gas consumption had reduced 30% from the previous year. Now that’s a pensioner. He is very happy.
Thank you for your explanations and encouragement. I hope more installers will take the time to understand how to be better at installing low temperature heating.👍👍👏👏 dobrze zrobiony.

[markgarnham]

So refreshing to see a heating engineer who looks to provide customers with a setup that is fit for purpose and set to run as efficiently as possible, there are so many installers out there that are just interested in sticking a boiler on the wall without any thought about controls or setting things up to run for the good of the customer which is scandalous really when a lot of equipment built these days has so much more to give than an on/off setup and could be being used so much more efficiently with modern options.

[stixstonesinvestors]

Still cannot get enough of this channel. You are unreal geez. I just love learning from you, blows my mind.

It’s a shame so many are stuck in there ways and don’t want to learn this.

With ya all the way bud and thanks again for your effort in doing these vids 👊🏻

[copperskills]

Been fitting ATAG boilers lately with there diverter valve and DHWP. Amazing set up and very simple to install

[erhantimur]

Only an expert can explains things so simply. Brilliant explanation. Thank you.

[imnothere]

Having two different flow temps from a heat pump without a blending valve would be super.

[TheZippyMark]

I just wanted to say, your videos have definitely made me think more about my installs and what can be done to improve them.

Quick question- how do you get these jobs? Like does someone request you make their heating system as efficient as possible? For my customers at least, I feel like making these sort of adaptations to a system would be a hard sell.

[lemmykilmister]

Great stuff as usual. But so many installers are afraid of adding cost and loosing the business. It's sad that so many customers aren't interested, they just want something that works as it did before.

[ReneArtoisMr]

Your underfloor solution by using a three way valve as temperature controller/ limiting is brilliant! I couldn’t find a decent solution for my future heatpump. I think you are using the ESBE 210 series valve. It makes more sense then overcomplicated underfloor units that still don’t exactly work as you really whish.

I save the video for future use 👍

[peterreeve]

I am a retire heating controls engineer that worked on building management systems. We occasionally did a system such as described in the video and would control in exactly the way described. If you keep the boiler flow temperature down to the minimum then it goes into condensing mode and you reap the benefits of efficiency. With regard to zone valves on the manifold I see your point as the system takes so long to react because the floor is a big storage radiator. The underfloor heating has got to be sized correctly and balanced and the control engineer has to be told the correct max flow temperature in the manifold. I always thought it was about 50C. You have not mentioned occupancy time or should it just run 24 hours.

[derekclark]

Been using this type of system in my house now for over nine years, not quite as sophisticated as the vaillant system as mixing valve cant be catered for on a Glowworm Systempro3, but by careful setup I have managed to use underfloor heating with no mixing/blending valve and fanned radiators upstairs that run on the same water temperature as underfloor heating with weather comp, there is overheat protection via a pipe stat wired back to the boiler, system is weather compensated so hot water priority and when called runs at max 73 degs until pocket thermister is satisfied then system switches back to UFH at any temperature up to 46 degs.
Your correct in what you say though when it comes to heating installers living in the past, nobody wants to spend the time learning how to wire up these weather compensated systems, and yet the wiring is in fact very simple once you understand that the controls and sensors will look after the system, an example being you dont need a bypass, the system will shut down the burner, keep the pump running and leave the zone valve open for the required time to disapate the boilers heat. like all Vaillant/Glowworm boilers the thermistors are used to great effect to test, check and monitor the complete function of the boiler and system, also the maximum boiler size is dictated by the larger heat demand as in total heating demand or total hot water recovery demand so in most homes thats a 10KW maximum boiler and here is where Vaillants new boilers has an advantage, the 10vu, 15vu, and 20vu can all rate down to 3KW in weather compensation.
I am really pleased to see that you are educating engineers to chuck the mixing valve away and control the UFH water temperture via weather compensation controls.
There is so many advantages to this kind of install that you can achieve great comfort and fuel efficienty and better reliablity long term.

[kenputer]

We have been using Tekmar controls with injection setup for our infloor jobs.

[robertgreenaway]

Thanks for the video. Could you do a more in depth look into the wiring controls and setting up the boiler with hot water priority and weather compensation, setting the different flow temperatures on vaillant. Thanks

[patriktoth]

Hi Simon, I love this video. I have a project it’s a flat which will be just on UFH powered by a vaillant combi.I would like to install system like this, but would you be able to recommend where to start? What manufacturer or where could I find any schemes or charts?

[TheIcebon]

Could you please do a video on wiring this sort of setup? Would be great!

[Liam_Hirst]

also which company would you recommend for underfloor supply thats designed to my heat losses

[myatix]

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing! QUESTION: can you share some more details about the KimboHeader?