Lets talk about 1.20's Game Balance Problem...

Before everyone freaks out and thinks I am hating on IanXOFour: I really like and appreciate what Ian is doing, it is some of the most interesting TMC currently. He is coming up with some very creative, clever solutions -- exactly what should be happening more!

IanXOFour's Farms Featured:

Scoripo's Universal Tree Farm:
(I mention this as being complex, but that is not a diss, this is a very nice farm)

Tango Tek's Overworld Iron Farm:
(Maybe one of Minecrafts most crazy, creative technical content creators)

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#Redstone #Minecraft #Farm

[RmNrIHRoZSBDQAK]

I'm not sure for whom the game will be ruined. If you're a noob discovering everything yourself, this won't have any effect. If you're a builder, you will need all types of blocks anyway. If you're a redstoner, your end goal probably isn't to farm bamboo and call it quits. I know there are players who start a new world once every 2 years, play for 10 days, kill the dragon and quit. I guess those will be playing for 9 days now.

[unitedairlanes]

i personally think that this bamboo farm has more in common with an iron farm or an automatic chicken farm than trading with a villager for diamond armour

[Fuzzi]

I agree that the Villagers are giving us a bit too much too easily, although creating a trading hall and getting them to their cheapest trades is not easy task when we're discussing 20 or more villagers (to have every interesting trades) that needs to be healed 5 times, with Gold that is not as easily farmed as Iron.

That being said lots of players don't even touch RedStone at all... You wouldn't believe it but many are pretty casual. They mine and build small houses and sometimes bigger houses. Most players I know don't even know how to build a flying machine, so building the same automated farms as you did for the bamboo is above their levels. Could they learn? Yes, correct they could and to be honest, if they finally learn how flying machines works for a bamboo farm... well good.

People won't like to build everything in Bamboo either... I mean, sure, we'll give Bamboo a try but the real cool wood of the update is the Cherry wood and that one will be difficult just to find.

Anyway, I see your point, but I think there are also new mechanics, and new difficulties in the same update. Will this new, easy farm affect some people the way your said it? Maybe. It could affect players like... you ? But will have little to no effect on a majority of players.

[jamessmith]

I am not sure I see the problem like you do. Unless you want to make diamond gear unrenewable, I think there will always come a point at which the grind is over and the focus is better automation and a megabase. I think you’re mostly asking for that time frame to be made longer, but to me this seems like a solution that only works in the short term, and doesn’t address the real problem that is getting bored in the end game. Instead of simply making a longer burning fuse by changing villagers rules, I think minecraft should have more features that are increasingly difficult to achieve- meaning there is always something (beyond a megabase) for a late game player to strive for. But this might be my bias, because I am a long term survival player and I view the early game stuff like diamond and the ender dragon as merely the tip of the iceberg, whereas more causal players might see it as the end goal of the game.

[emiliavalimaki]

I personally like bamboo in 1.20 to use for chests. As i am more of a builder player, i still need to farm other woods, which is tedious and time consuming even with farms, so i am glad that there's cheaper option for functional mass produced chest wood.

The beauty of minecraft is that there's millions of players with different playstyles, and if someone finds the game too easy, they can handicap themselves and not use "OP" features.

[TheTechmaster]

Couple issues with this:
1) This presumes players would use only bamboo in their builds. A good build uses a healthy variety of blocks therefore bamboo is not a limiting material.

2) This also only effects survival, If someone is going to build some sort of megastructure, they'll likely do it in creative unless they are specifically looking for a challenge, which will come more from the lack of flying and the acquiring of a variety of blocks. That and planning

[lukegray]

I actually like the bamboo wood type being easy to get for aesthetics. The real balance issue that the bamboo update brings is that bamboo can be used to craft chests and therefore hoppers. Wood farms are too complicated to build just for the aesthetics of the given wood type and therefore will just be a super late game luxury that nearly no one will take the time on.

[samschellhase]

You’re not denied early game satisfaction when you *choose* to do that yourself.

Also the grind of getting all the villager trades, and moving all the villagers around, is very time consuming. If you do it all the time, maybe you have a really fast and simple way of doing it all, but most people will struggle with doing all that at the very beginning of the game. Getting a fully fleshed out trading hall has some amount of satisfaction in and of itself

Making functional blocks only craft able with certain wood types can severely limit early game movement. If you spawn in a desert and need dark oak to build bookshelves, how are you getting enchantments on even early level gear without searching possibly thousands of blocks?

[soupglasses]

8:25 The "max 4 golems" part. This would just create one single "100% efficent" farm that everyone would essentially copy if they so desired. And it would not spark any creativity outside of the first week for the few iron-farm designers around.

I think a better route is to design such that designing farms is simpler for a "every day minecrafter". For example redstone really hits the nail on the head with that "easy to get into, hard to master" in automation. While a villager breeder/hall/iron farm/etc or more difficult things like prismarine farms, pretty much impossible to "self-learn" and creates a very passive "build this thing i found online" style of play.

[storminmormin]

This is why the create mod is so dominant. It replaces most of these mechanics with something actually interesting.

[Nephelangelo]

I think on the contrary, bamboo actually eliminates the never ending tedious grind for petty wood consumption, not anything that will be missed in survival gameplay. Auto tree farms will not go away, as players will still need those for building, and you’re simply not going to build everything out of bamboo. It’s just now a cheap wood option for consumables, torches, chests, etc, which I honestly think we needed because the constant never ending chopping of wood for petty items is not a terribly fun activity. There are other aspects of the game that are definitely too easy, but I don’t think wood production is one of them. Villagers on the other hand are indeed totally game breaking, offering basically free infinite diamond armor and tools and endless materials, reducing the gameplay to a dull trading GUI, and desperately need to be fixed. Yet even that hasn’t stopped us from playing, and working around the game breaking aspects. Free wood is the least of the game’s problems.

[Tactcat]

i think this would make more sense to me if i could see minecraft as a purely technical game a la factorio but minecraft is so big on being a game about setting your own narrative
i'd say there's a responsibility for *the players* to be creative - like how etho didn't make an iron farm until VERY late (which he was then reluctant to use) and how ilmango still makes gold farms that aren't just portal farms
also it's already been said but it's ugly... okay no but there ain't no way in hell i'm using solely bamboo to build my 10k big tree + tree house

[NitFlickwick]

Bamboo wood is definitely unbalanced, and you are right that Mojang needs to be careful of this, but a lot of the arguments I’ve heard (not saying all of yours for in this category!) amount to “this isn’t the Minecraft I grew up with”. Most players don’t grind villagers or build automated farms, and that is who Mojang is primarily developing for. The real question is whether there will be a technical community in a few years time and the impact that will have on the overall game.

[metalbamboo]

I feel like an interesting fix to villagers would be new requirements that involve building an actual village (such as they can move around and arent trapped, or their houses are a certain size or bigger, etc.), so that if you wanted the best trades you would either need to build a complex and nice village, or get creative with how they are set up for maximum efficiency.

[twistit]

The problem is without bamboo you either have to choose if you do tnt duping or if you farm wood manually (since you cant craft tnt automatically and sand isnt even a renewable ressource without duping). It might seem like nobody even thinks about if duping is an exploit, but there is a group of people trying to avoid it. Bamboo planks may not be perfect, but it is a possible automatic wood source for players who dont want to use exploits. I would also like the obtaining be more difficult/to need a more complex automation. but its better like this then nothing.

[harrisphera]

I think it will probably be fine. It’s been my experience most people don’t play this way. While there are lots of us who use farms not everyone uses every farm. Or any.

Lots of people still use their own methods outside of farms for resource collection because they still take time and effort to learn and make correctly. Even after your first time. And that’s considering you even know they exist in the first place.

As for people who push it. I think there is always something bigger they can do. I Ike your iron farm that produces over a million iron/hr. You did that simply because you wanted to push the limits for theory. Other players will build that as big as they can because they want something big in survival. And once they are satisfied they can do something else.

[danielc]

I think is a minor player base who makes farms tho, besides the aesthetic part is important since wood from bamboo looks very different from the normal wood

[Spec_Games]

Me personally, I love it through and through. Especially for scaffolding. I can never have enough of it. So easy to take down, so easy to put up. And it makes making bigger bills easier. It also makes the area look looks like a construction zone which I love

[Joshimuz]

Wow you said pretty much everything I think about the balance of the game... Minus Elytra+Rockets being too OP so all but the insane speed travel infustructure being pointless... And mending being too OP so once you have the best gear you no longer require resources to maintain it except your time AFKing a mob farm...
But yes the resource gathering part you nailed :P

[Nephelangelo]

I actually think automatic renewable wood production makes total sense for Minecraft, eliminating the tedious grind for petty consumable items like torches, chests, etc. which shouldn’t require a grind to make. What I don’t think should be automated or renewable however is gold, or diamond items, as they are “precious” materials which should be absolutely finite and scarce. I’d also probably add amethyst to that list, and maybe even iron. Wood being easily renewable, however, makes total sense.