Misunderstood Moments in History - Why the Persians Failed to Conquer Greece

We conclude with a discussion of why the Persians ultimately failed. This analysis corrects traditional narratives which portray the factors incorrectly.

Bibliography:
'Neither the Less Valorous Nor the Weaker': Persian Military Might and the Battle of Plataia by Roel Konijnendijk
H. van Wees, 'Herodotus and the past', in E. Bakker/I. de Jong/H. van Wees (eds), Brill's Companion to Herodotus (2002), 321-349
Thuc. 1.69.5, 6.33.5.
G. Cawkwell, The Greek Wars: The Failure of Persia (2005)

#History
#Greece
#Persia

[DayzO]

The Greek: Ok lets put our differences aside and face a common enemy.
After the win: Ok lets get back to hating each other.

[ian]

The fact that a nation could organize and mobilize an army of around 100.000 people back then is amazing.

[kurtmueller]

It is interesting to note, on the topic of killing the envoys, that Spartans felt that they had committed a most heinous act of blasphemy by killing the envoys: For them who prided themselves on their piousness, every envoy was under the personal protection of one of their gods, IIRC it might be Hermes but I am not certain, it did not matter from which country the envoy was or how insolent or outrageous his demands were, every envoy was protected by Hermes himself.
Realizing what they had done, the Spartans sent two volunteers and tons of gifts to the court of the Persian king. Those two volunteers were supposed to die there as an atonement for the two envoys that had been murdered in Sparta. Yet the Persian king in his clemency forgave them and sent them home, loaded with gifts.

It is remarkable that this account is not Persian propaganda but from the Spartans themselves.

[edmundmanuel]

The thing that impresses me the most about the whole affair is how unlikely it was that the greeks won . It's one of those textbook examples of how overwhelming force does not always equate victory. The persian doctrine of ruthless punishment or forgiving diplomacy is also masterful. It makes sense that they lasted so long with such a strong system of governance and war doctrine. Their adaptation to the greek victory by subsequently undermining them diplomatically is also brilliant. This is why I love antiquity. It was so incredibly rich in fantastic characters and almost fictional stories! I wish I had a time machine to go back and see how it all actually happened

[InvictaHistory]

Correction: At 24:44 the graphics state the Greeks were "Untrained levies". This is incorrect. It should instead say "non-professional" or "militia" to be more aligned with the script which states the Greeks were "levies who mustered in times of war without regular training". This is in the context of an argument for a smaller quality gap between the armies than is typically depicted as opposed to an argument for a non-existent gap which we did not intend to make.

[Venakis]

Fun fact: After the destruction of the Persian army in the battle of Plateau, the Greek general Pausanias ordered the staff of Mardonius to prepare a feast like the ones the Persian General used to have. He also prepared the infamous spartan meal (melanas zomos which translates in black soup, a very nutritious meal but with extremely bad taste). Then he invited all the Greek leaders to Mardonius tent and he presented both meals. He stated : Don't you think my friends that Mardonius is so stupid that he came from the edge of the world here to conquer our melanas zomos while in his country he was eating in golden dishes?

[fgrodriguezqac]

24:12 "And it wouldn't be until Alexander the Great that hellenistic armies truly perfected the combined arms approach to warfare".... what you should say its "until Phillip of Macedon", he is the one that revolutionized the hellenistic Alexander inherited that army and went to conquer but his daddy built it first.

[jonnydont]

5:00 they didn't have buses back in those days, it's more likely he threw them under a cart or chariot

[GigglesClown]

Obviously it's because the persians pecs weren't as chiseled as the manly Spartans

[notani]

Random chance is a real thing when you consider the fact that the Yuan invasion over Japan got screwed by a storm that happens in both invasion.

[darthzayexeet]

Athen: We control Greece!

Sparta: *“Do you feel in charge?“*

[wardeni]

24:44 replace "untrained levies" with "Citizen Militia".


The Greeks were not untrained, rather they worked as any conscript army: they lived regular lives, but were trained to fight in wars should they arise. They weren't professional soldiers, but they weren't untrained either.

[andyalford]

The battle of Salamis was decided long before the first Greek oar struck water. How? Themistocles had been successful in keeping the Persian Navy awake all night waiting for the Greek navy to try and escape. He did this by using the persian's habit of relying on traitors to gain the upper hand. Themistocles sent a man he trusted to tell Xerxes that the Greeks were fractured and fearful, that the Greek Navy planned to slip out of port that night and escape. Xerxes kept his navy at their posts all night waiting for the Great Escape. Themistocles on the other hand told his sailors & marines to get a good nights sleep. So they awoke the next morning bright eyed & bushy tailed while the Persians were exhausted.

[jsudlow]

I’d like to mention the moral factor, the Greeks were fighting what they perceived as, a war of survival, so they were more motivated to win than a collection of troops gather across the Persian empire, who were sent to Greece to ensure the power of the king, seems like the Greeks had more to fight for

[AfG_]

My landlord is a Greek man I am Tajik from my fathers side and Persian/Kashmiri from my mothers side. We often chat about the history of our people. He is a great man I love my landlord he always been fair and comes frm a good family

[persimmon]

Persian, Mongol, Spanish: Naval Invasion!
Storm: I am going to end this man's career.

[armandom.s.]

Of course, there is not a simple quality/quantity answer. Did the Persians outnumber the Greeks? Yes, it's almost sure and most of military historians agree. Did the Greeks have a better armor? Yes, even if the Persian heavy cavalry was well armored, most of their infantry was light armored.
But it does not mean that the Persian army was a low-quality army. It was incredibly successful in Asia and also out of his homeland, even if most of the people don't know.
The point is that each army has a very different military system. The farmer-based phalanx of Greek warfare proved superior, at least (and just) at winning battles. The Persians had a very good army, well designed for mantaining his empire and for defeating other near-easter armies and kingdoms, but that system was not prepared for a struggle against a citizen phalanx.
It is not a matter of quality, but of context.

[racoonlittle]

How the Greeks won at the Battle of Plataea: they had the high ground

[christianbh]

*”To think that chaos is at the root of where we stand today, can be scary”*
I like that a lot, and it’s very true.

[jewsco]

The few major reasons Persia lost in the end were:

1) the Persian army was designed to fight in open field using its Calvary and the Greek army was built to fight on its homeland which was rocky and mountainous.
2) the Persian army drew upon many different nationalities so it had a communication problem while the Greeks all spoke a similar language.
3) maintaining and feeding an invading army over a long distance is still a logistical problem till this day .
That is what hurt Persia