How Misunderstanding VLOS Cost Drone Pilot THOUSANDS

Join Sean as he takes a different angle to a story that has been discussed across the UK drone world recently. The interpretation of legislation is something we all love to do in debates online, but when it comes to a court room, is there actually much less room for interpretation than many people think? Let us know your thoughts in the comments!

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Link to article from Police:
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Geeksvana is a YouTube channel focused on drones, or as you might call them UAS, (Uncrewed Aerial Systems). We cover all types of drones from hobbyist to commercial, with a focus on drone rules and future flight. Primarily a news channel looking to bring our audience the latest news, leaks and information on the drone world – we also provide how to guides and reviews on products. Geeksvana is an independent source of news and guidance.

Sean Hickey, founder of Geeksvana and main channel presenter is a UK registered journalist who seeks to provide accurate information on what is an often misquoted and misrepresented industry and hobby. Sean currently holds certificates from the UK Civil Aviation Authority, including both the A2 Certificate of Competency (A2 CofC) and the General Visual Line of Sight Certificate (GVC). Flying all sizes of multirotor aircraft from the small DJI Mini 2 to larger aircraft including the DJI Inspire series for both hobby flights and commercial work.
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[RickLaBanca]

I sometimes wonder why the fpv camera view isn’t considered good enough for beyond vlos.

I’ve had pilots argue they see more but I trained in a Cessna 152 which has less visibility than some of my drone cameras.

It would be interesting if bvlos were allowed if the camera had a view beyond a certain angle.

I also image a drone with a 360 view inset inn to the image would be even better than manned aircraft.

[OnlyVansGuru]

Thanks for explaining that. the last part about the mountains put it in perspective.... I have a very small DJI mini 2.... and with my eyes at my age.. well, about 20ft away then!

[PaulLockwood]

Just watched the linked video you have given and he has mentioned a couple of points, one quite worrying.
He wasn't flying (in fact he was driving) when they pulled him over in the car, spotted he had drones and took them to trawl through his flight data. He says he had around 2k flights where in all of those the charges have come from 2 flights. This looks like they were going through every flight with a fine tooth comb to see if that could prosecute him.

The second point not so worrying but the severe amount of wrongful information reported by the press. Name spelt wrong, fine wrong and even saying he was flying over a certain building which wasn't even brought up a a charge.

s his point goes on the stopping, does that mean if the police stop you driving and see you have a dashcam that they can take it and look for any possible speeding offence?

[andym]

The legislation should not say “line of sight” as that wording leaves room for ‘creative’ interpretation. Taking the legislation as it is meant, better expressions would be “kept within visual range” or “must not be flown beyond visual range’

[dougaltolan]

Sheesh! The paragraph is simple!
Up to first cimma: definition of the term.
First to second comma: the requirements. (what you MUST do)
Second comma onwards: the reason fir what you MUST do. (I no way modifies the requirements)

Of far greater concern should be the word "unaided"!
Need glasses for distance? That's an aid!

[ommanomnom]

These laws are absolutely ridiculous. Im not going to follow them. Ive paid for a certificate of competency and training, not having some wet wipe tell me i don't know how to fly a toy.

Whats the point of buying a professional drone to do work, that can fly 10km, just for VLOS to invole rules so i can only fly it 100m?

This country is ridiculous and everything good or useful is illegal. Not standing for this anymore.

[OpenCarryUSMC]

Wait…… a cop is going to issue a citation and it’s a fixed fine WITH NO COURT PROCEEDING
Please tell me that it can be taken to court and challenged because there are far too many ignorant cops in the UK when it comes to drone law.

[digger]

Drone seekers in Spain are a good example of people abusing the rules 😂

[robinclark]

I do wonder why we buy these drones with expensive GPS and return to home functionality and yet have to maintain VLOS at all times....

[droneuseruk]

Time for me to quit flying. Its just not worth the hassle anymore.

[Geoffrey-tz]

Surely this mean, dont let it fly where you cant see it

[garyeaton]

I set my settings to 500m when I reach this distance I am notified I have reached maximum distance pre set. I very rarely travel this far out.

[joshieeee]

If i flew a drone in my back yard, 10 m away from me (over a fence in my garden) i can no longer see where the drone will come down, yes this is an extreme case but essentially this is what the legislation says isnt ok? i just want to enjoy my 30 gram drone, and dont get me started on fpv, there really needs to be some provisions about fpv.... Flying with a spotter is wildly impractical, i would also argue that i "own" the air up to roof height back in my garden, surely i can use this space to enjoy for example basketball, and thus the caa shouldn't have a say with operator id for example, yes i understand that enforcement in these cases is extremely unlikely but law really should try to be something which is obvious to enforce, where breaking it is a problem, hundreds of fpv flights probably occur with no harm and low risk of injury to uninvolved people and yet its completely illegal essentially. Maybe im overreacting but i just dont like the idea of laws that will only be applied based on how an officer is feeling that day. Sorry about the rant

[andrewhaynes]

Given the woeful lack of understanding of drone laws by the general police, PCNs seem like they will be massively abused.

[officialsimonharris]

I don't think it has anything to do with returning to home or landing, it's VISUAL LINE OF SIGHT which means being able to, at any time while flying, being able to look up and see the drone - Even if it's a dot in the sky and it says being ABLE to maintain, not MAINTAIN, so you must be able to look up and see it without it being obstructed from your view by anything

[Bob_Burton]

I am sorry to say that this video has added nothing to my understanding of VLOS and how it applies to me and my flying.

It is still a fact that under a number of circumstances VLOS can mean a variety of different things. For instance, the easiest way to avoid a collision with an aircraft is never to allow the drone to appear to be in the same place in the sky as the aircraft no matter what range either of them is at. To achieve that it is not necessary to know what direction the drone is flying in as the separation can be achieved by a change of height. All that is necessary is to be able to see the drone. If I can't see my drone then it is certainly beyond my VLOS

But there is also the thorny matter of whose VLOS we are talking about. On a few occasions when flying my drone, interested members of the public have engaged me in conversation, asking the normal questions such as "how much did it cost", "how high can it fly", "how long does it fly for" and "how far away can it fly" etc. I enjoy such conversations, but when asked "where is it now" there have been times when although its position and orientation were obvious to me with the naked eye the person asking the question simply could not find the drone in the sky. Was it, therefore, flying beyond their VLOS ?

It sounds like PCN's are going to be a nightmare in terms of evidence

[OpenCarryUSMC]

So I’m in the US but our legislation on VLOS is basically the same though it includes verbiage about the ability to determine orientation of the drone.
I’ve observed a Phantom 4 at night, one mile out, and its orientation was easily known because of proper equipment. Basically, a red stobe on the back and a green one on the front.
Red only, flying away.
Green only, flying towards.
Green on left, red on right, flying to the left.
Red right, green left, flying to the right.
As the flight was conducted over water, avoidance consisted of not flying over boats on the water (required to be lighted and thus easily seen had any come into the area) and dropping to a minimum altitude should an aircraft approach (which being lighted would be easily seen miles away).
So how far is highly dependent upon the operator or observers vision, ability to comprehend visual inputs, environmental factors such as lighting or fog, and many other variables.
500 meters seems a bit silly as a maximum distance for VLOS even though an even shorter distance COULD be beyond VLOS depending on all the variables.
Personally, if someone wants to challenge me on whether I’m VLOS or not, they’d best do it after I’ve landed because where I live, it’s a minimum $5, 000 civil judgement against anyone who interferes with a sUAS which would include aircraft, controller, and pilot.

[airheadbit]

I followed the link looking for the altitude the UAS was flown at, seems they got him for flying above 400 feet when he flew over a stadium. In the U.S. we are restricted to 400 feet AGL but we can fly 400 feet above a structure, the stadium appears to be around 200 feet that means 600 feet AGL. The stadium is in a highly populated area, he earned that fine. I'm glad I live here, if I was living there, I'd sale my drones, you can't fight police stupid. I can say that I can see far more with my DJI Goggles 3 than sitting in the pilot seat of a general aviation aircraft and with my Air 3S I have ADS-B awareness.

[BuildingByFaith]

With the advent of obstacle avoidance, seems to me new rules need to be considered.

[OpenCarryUSMC]

So here’s an alternate way to view a PCN.
It’s a rich man’s permit to do as they please.
If you can afford the fine, you’re free to do as you please. If you’re part of the masses, you have to comply with the CIVIL rules.