Rethinking SEO in the age of AI | Eli Schwartz (SEO advisor, author)

Eli Schwartz is a leading SEO consultant and the author of Product-Led SEO. He has worked with industry giants like Zapier, Tinder, Coinbase, Quora, LinkedIn, and WordPress to build and execute global SEO strategies that significantly enhanced their organic visibility at scale. In our conversation, Eli shares:
• How AI and LLMs are reshaping the SEO landscape
• Why you should be focused on mid-funnel SEO strategies
• How to determine if SEO is the right approach for your business
• Why SEO should be treated as a product rather than just a marketing tactic
• SEO myths
• The future of search in light of recent legal challenges faced by Google
• Much more

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In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Eli’s background
(02:10) The impact of AI on SEO strategies
(11:34) Understanding search intent
(15:30) Real-world impact and structured vs. unstructured data
(20:19) Top-of-funnel vs mid-funnel SEO strategies
(22:57) Case studies
(31:29) Steps for getting started with SEO
(35:20) Examples of when not to focus on SEO
(39:17) Evaluating SEO investment
(44:00) Understanding the tradeoffs in marketing channels
(46:23) SEO conversion metrics and expectations
(52:09) Understanding the time horizon of SEO
(59:37) The role of AI in content creation
(01:05:26) AI overviews
(01:07:40) Brand building and SEO
(01:09:51) Programmatic vs. editorial SEO strategies
(01:16:06) Insights from the Google antitrust verdict
(01:20:36) Google’s dominance in search
(01:23:52) The future of SEO and user choice
(01:26:28) SEO myths debunked
(01:36:58) Forecasting SEO success
(01:44:18) The need for SEO expertise
(01:46:26) Lightning round and closing thoughts

Referenced:

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

[unmiss-com]

I find the idea of AI and LLMs reshaping SEO particularly fascinating. As AI continues to advance, it's clear that traditional SEO tactics need to evolve, and your perspective on treating SEO as a product rather than just a marketing tactic resonates deeply. Focusing on mid-funnel strategies also seems like a smart move, especially in today’s landscape where consumer intent is more nuanced.

Here are some of the key takeaways I found valuable:

-The importance of mid-funnel SEO strategies for nurturing informed decision-making.
-Evaluating whether SEO is the right approach for specific business models.
-The need to debunk common SEO myths to avoid wasting resources on outdated practices.

I’m also curious about your thoughts on how legal challenges faced by Google may impact the future of search and SEO strategies. Looking forward to more of your insights!

[peopledrawing]

I love this. Beginner SEOs tend to be tactical. Eli's basic message is to pivot from tactical to strategic thinking. All tactics should follow from there.

[susan]

Great talk but totally disagree about restaurant websites. I do lots of business entertaining and really need to see menu and prices. Also the parking situation -- do they offer valet? Just for dinner, or lunch also? Stuff like that

[АртемТкачев-эи]

Very interesting podcast! Thank you!!!

[alexandrpanchenko]

It looks more like a great marketing, not a narrow SEO

[samanthachristensen]

Very cool to see SEO as more of a UX function - start with really knowing the user. Then, when the user drops into your website, consider where are they in their journey? What do they need next? (Instead of 'how do I fill the blog with some content this week?')

[Daveboymagic]

Great talk! But disagree on the point that some comanies shouldnt do SEO or even have a Website.
- Content written for SEO turns out to be the Content that A.I.s are trained on
- Even the trade show example: whoever visited your booth might forget your name or just have a question and google it

Not saying SEO should be the first priority, but not doing any SEO? Not having a website?

[nosiphondlovu]

All the way from South Africa

I love your content

[JakeDelHagen]

This was spot on and a great interview.

[startuptalker]

Half of google revenue comes from Google ads. There is no way they are gonna kill Ads.

Here is what they are gonna do-

Modify platform in such a way that people trust it to make transaction and not just discover content.

Any ui change and algorithm change is going to support it be it AI or manual content.

Customer wins ultimately.

[devparekh]

Would you still optimize for keywords in mid funnel, niche SEO content as well? Or would that be counterproductive and aid something like AI overview to scrap and present you content? 35:00

[Alexjdenne]

18:47 I'm not sure we can call Gemini's outputs structured data in the traditional sense.

[abba]

🚨Product Search. SEO✅👍
Must see😎👀 Podcast.✅👍