Lockheed F-104 Starfighter: The Flying Coffin

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[larrygrosfield]

These comments, unfortunately, repeat several myths about the F-104. For one thing, it is an excellent dogfighter when flown by someone who knows how to work the vertical. Pilots of other fighters in dissimilar aircraft exercises often accused the F-104 of cheating, since it kept going up and down instead of making turns like a 'real' airplane. One F-8 pilot reported following a smoke trail to track down an F-4 (which used the same J-79 engine) and realizing he was in trouble when the F-104 flying close formation with the F-4 pulled up into a climb the F-8 couldn't match. He was still trying to spot the smaller plane when it made a diving attack from behind and scored a simulated kill.

With the G-model takeoff flaps the F-104 could outturn an F4. T/O flap limit speeds were then M0.8 or 550 KIAS, whichever was reached first. As for climb, a strictly standard F104A/J-79-19 in combat configuration could reach 45000ft. 90 seconds after brake release.

None of the nicknames listed were actually used by F-104 pilots, especially "Widowmaker." This was given to it by others, largely due to the unfortunate German accident rate early in the plane's deployment there. (Note that during this same period Spain lost *none* of its F-104s.) Once Germany changed its training program, their accident rate for the F-104 dropped to well within the same range as that for other jet fighters of the period. Pilots called it the Zipper.

The problem with the F104G and the Luftwaffe was a combination of shorter runways (8000 ft) than the pilots had trained on at Luke AFB (11000 ft), much worse weather (Luke is in the desert), and lack of experience of the pilots and of the mechanics. At this time the economy of Germany was swiftly improving and many LW mechanics separated from the service to go to work in industry at much higher levels of pay. Note that the Belgians seldom had an accident although their weather is generally as bad as Germany's.
- Walt Bjorneby, 730 hours of
F104 time.

[Strothy]

Here in Germany we had saying: If you wanna own a F104 just wait a few days one will sooner or later fall from the sky into your backyard :D

[niravramdarie]

media: this is a groundbreaking aircraft

pilots: I hope you don't mean that literally

[lohrtom]

It’s also the only USAF aircraft to have intercepted the Starship Enterprise

[raydunakin]

There was an entire movie devoted to this plane. It was called, "The Starfighters" and stars real Air Force personnel instead of actors -- and it shows. Also includes lots and lots of stock footage, mostly of mid-air refueling. It was featured in an episode of Mystery Science Theater 3000, and I highly recommend it! Very, very funny!

[hichamblidi]

Here in Italy the 104 is a very respected machine, we used it till 2005

[colderwar]

No supersonic ( or subsonic ) fighters from the 1950's had a particularly amazing safety record. They were all bloody deathtraps.
The 104 was particularly awkward if the engine failed, not just because you'd got no power and it glided like a brick, but because the engine failure also removed the boundary layer control from the flaps. The landing speed was insane without it working. The published engine out procedure assumed you could arrive at the runway with 10, 000 feet altitude to spare, and if you couldn't manage that then it was best to use the Martin Baker option instead.
There were so many other aircraft of the era with flaws that could kill the unlucky or inattentive, like the Mig-19 that would blow up for no apparent reason ( if it's flight controls hadn't lawn darted you first ), the BAC Lightning which loved to catch fire and the F-101 Voodoo that enjoyed nothing better than uncontrollable pitch ups.
Even 1970's combat aircraft like the Sepecat Jaguar had their quirks, like departing controlled flight if they were given pitch and roll inputs at the same time.
Military aviation in the golden age of jets was dangerous, no matter which aircraft you were wobbling about in.

[lovelessissimo]

I remember seeing/hearing a 104 flying at an airshow when I was a kid. It looks like a straight up space ship cosplaying as a fighter jet.

[markharris]

My father flew the F-104 from 1958 to 1966 including a deployment with the Black Aces of the 436th TFS in Vietnam. He never spoke a harsh word about the aircraft. In fact, he often told me it was superior to many other jet aircraft he had flown over his extensive career with the USAF. In short, I agree with the comments below that in the hands of the right pilot, it was a magnificent plane indeed.

[yoda]

WHOA, you missed a big point. I had the thrill of seeing two 104's flying for the Bundesluftwaffe (West German AF) during a maneuver as a tank commander in the early 1980's (I assume a reserve unit due to the date). The West Germans deployed the F104's as JABO's (tactical fighter bomber), not high-level interceptors. This put the aircraft outside it's envelope for stall speed. This is well documented. Due to the scandal and cost the Bundesluftwaffe tried to make it work. Imagin needing a tractor to plow a field and you get a Ferrari instead. Seeing it at low level in that iconic German splinter camouflage, emblazoned with an Iron Cross was a thrill. Didn't hear of any crashes that day so I guess they made it home. Hey if you can sell KEEP's I guess the West Germans can use an F104 like a Stuka.

[sojolly]

When i started working at Lockheed on the YF-22, there were a few very old engineers still around that worked on the Starfighter. They had great stories.

[tomsvircev]

The early downward firing ejector seat was because they weren't good enough yet to ensure the pilot would clear the tail. As soon as they could, they changed over.
Also, Michael Collin's favorite plane he flew.

[Lhenry-pfzn]

My father, RCAF Captain Clifford John (HANK) HENRY said this was the finest aircraft he ever flew. He also said it was not for inexperienced pilots and that most pilots were afraid of the 104. He said it was an honest aircraft, but for a lack of attention, it would honestly kill you. It was like a F-1 racing car, get behind the flight envelope and you were in trouble. It was seldom employed in roles for which it was designed and yet it did everything that was ever asked of it. While it was never in a major air to air confrontation, and thus does not have a high ratio of kills, it was a very hard aircraft to beat, as many an adversary discovered. In all the NATO competitions never was a 104 'shot down' or intercepted before it reached its' target. In the hands of a pilot such as my father, the 104 could dog fight with the best of them and usually won.

[veuo]

I loved to watch the CF-104 at various air shows, and at CFB Cold Lake, Alberta while I was an Air Cadet in 1981. There's nothing like the eerie howl of the J79. Great video, Simon. I had no idea of the sordid history of this aircraft.

[damienmaynard]

Some of the Italian pilots in the F-104S were among the sharpest and most efficient pilots! Intercepts and intrusions were difficult to counter and almost impossible to avoid thanks to the speed and small size.The Canadians also used the CF-104 very well. Kelly Johnson designed it after speaking to pilots about Korean War experiences - they got what they asked him for! (edit: Glad you mentioned the perfect record in Spanish service!)

[CAPNMAC]

Also, one of the more interesting things about the F-104 is that it begat the U-2. Which was a 104 with glider wings.

[LogieTK]

“Hans, You know that purpose built interceptor the US have given us”
“Ja”
“Why dont we use it as a ground attacker”
“Helmut, you’re a genius”

[lexocet]

I remember seeing the Starfighter for the first time in "The Right Stuff" and thinking it was the coolest thing ever. And after 30 years I still think it is amazing, despite the shortcomings. Great video, thanks!

[eivinstens]

I saw the 104 live in Norway in 2018. That was some experience. The noise was incredible, and it looks amazingly timeless and fast still. If I remember correctly, I believe we had far more accidents with the previous fighters like the F-84 and F-86.

[crusherbmx]

Saw a fleet of Canadian CF-104s at an airshow in 1978, right at the time that Star Wars was the biggest thing...I was 7...this this was fast and loud, looked freaking cool, and was called "Starfighter"....how could I not love it.