5 Reasons you SHOULDN'T back : Moonrakers

Negotiation meets Deckbuilding got you in the “Take my Money” blues? Chris might have the cure!

Timestamps
00:00 Intro
01:02 Reasons to be excited
05:45 5 Reasons not to back
06:38 Number 5
11:07 Number 4
12:44 Number 3
16:13Number 2
18:02 Number 1, and 1, and 1…
21:40 Am I backing?/Reason #6

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[HeeeeySteve]

I love the backer #7 call out. So funny to me and I absolutely appreciate that joke. I’m so happy to see Veiled Fate by you as well. Enjoy your time away!

[joshuag]

We have both Veiled Fate & Moonrakers, and Moonrakers has quickly jumped into my top 10 and is both my favorite deck builder & favorite negotiation game. My recommendation, is if you love both of those aspects, and can play with 3-5 get this game. it's so much fun, and everyone we've shown it to, loved it. Right now it runs a bit long, and while it does slow down at the end player in first doesn't get invited on missions, like you said, the objective cards, or just the fact that you've built your ship to the point where you can complete contracts on your own, means you can still progress. I've also played Luminor with my base game and while it is awesome for me it's not as fun as the negotiating game that is the 3-5 player game. it's a great co-op because everything happens simultaneously, there is no downtime, and I look forward to more content. One note on trashing cards/refining your deck, the ship parts are what allow you to add cards, so if you replace a ship part you remove those cards too, also there are parts/crew members that allow you to trash cards, so that is definitely there.

Moonrakers in on TTS you can try it now, see if you like it, if you do get the base game, then maybe later add an expansion when you feel like you want to enhance one aspect of the game. For me I'm getting all the expansion content, but this is a top 10 game for me, and a game, that I've played a lot since getting it this spring.

[jbarr]

Moonrakers is great but if people do not like to talk or negotiate it may not be for their group. Nomad was the best when we played bc it also weeds out some of the extra negotiation since only the players in or adjacent to your sector have a chance to help you. The event cards also make it more fun. I will probably always use that one. Binding Ties is also fun and can see that being used with Nomad. Everyone in one of my groups has the game and will probably go all in. I’m sending them this video lol. I feel I could always play the expansion(s) I chose not to get with their copy if I do not back it all. I’m a complationist though and love metal so 24 days to make some choices. Chris are you going to GEN CON?

[nathanaeljeanselme]

Bro, thank you! Still excited for all of them, but am grateful for the reminder to not blow all the rent money:) feel a lot better about not backing the Titan box! Have a great day and a Merry Christmas!

[johnfavaro]

LOL the first half of this video you were doing the opposite of your intended mission.
Thankfully you recovered fairly well when talking about price.

[FemmeSensei]

You are most certainly not another idiot with a camera, you're a very special one...
And you make great videos and are clever, thank you!

[Hendrycks]

I paid $1 during the KS for PM access, and I've been back and forth for a few weeks.

I tried it on TTS only 2-player to see how it sort of runs and even with the $179 Titan w/3 Expansions, and the $10 10 card pack and the $12 15 card pack (what?!!) there's only 16 cards per colour of Contract in the entirety of the game, playing with the Base and all THREE Expansions.

So when you play Nomad with the board made up of 4 main sectors (blue, orange, yellow, green) and the final special Sorellia sector (purple) each colour/sector has 16 cards. Whenever you decide to move to that Sector (you have to always move to a new Sector) you draw 3 openly, pick 1 to try, the other 2 go back under the Deck, and then try to succeed at the Contract you picked.

This means that at most 1 player needs to only go to that Sector/Colour 5 times to see 15 of the 16 cards. So on a 6th time, you've seen EVERY contract of that colour + 2 repeats, - with 4 or 5 players it can and will happen that a lot of people prefer a certain colour and you go through that Sector's cards 3-6 times in ONE game!

In comparison to this game, a Marvel Legendary expansion of $30-40 has about 500+ cards all with full colour art made by real comic book artists with balancing to make sure all the unique abilities work well together, vs the same repeated art on almost all of the cards that have usually only 1 main colour on them...

As for playing the game, some Crew and Ship Parts work by trashing cards from your hand, so that's when you cull your bad cards to get more powerful abilities. So depending on the game you might specialize in that and just constantly weed out the bad cards.

[kev_G]

haha great video! Sounds like you'll be getting the game. You got it exactly, it's a negotiation game with some fun deck building. Sure, you can have a great deck but you gotta have the negotiation chops at the table to win!

Oh also, Overload provides a lot more options for deck thinning replacing the basic cards. I think I'm most excited for Nomad because it completely changes up the game: global events are super cool and the new contract system! Something that I didn't quite like about the base game was game length. Just a tad too long and I think all the expansions now speed up the game since you get more ways for victory points & stronger decks earlier.

[anthony]

#5, you can purchase a ship part or crew that allow you swap out base cards for the better version.
#2, you have to manage your deck and its size, thats on you. When you purchase ship parts they add cards, what are you adding? Does it help you from a deck POV as well as the ship part perk. You can purchase cards you need, some crew allow you to add/subtract to you hand/deck, a certain crew will turn misses into damage while adding miss cards to your deck upon purchase - now you may want to look for other ship parts that add misses to your hand. It sounds like some people need more experience and learning with the game from this aspect, but yes sometimes you may not have reactors in your hand but thats when you jump into someone else's contract to get some loot and cycle cards before your turn.

[orbesteanutsa]

Thanks for the great video, Chris George! My take away is that I’ve added now Veiled Pledge all in to my All in Moonrakers pledge due to your picture there. Few extra hundreds of $$$, thanks buddy! Remember, there is no such thing as negative publicity!

[Vorago]

On number 2 and number 1: the way I see it is that this game is for people who like negotiation but suck at it, but it's not a true deckbuilder.

Here's why I'm saying this: you get a turn that you drew really really badly. You're at 8 points and most people won't negotiate with you. At this point, it becomes a numbers game. Your two options at this point are to stretch the game out, or try and get a better hand.

So you start trying to negotiate just to draw a new hand. You end up having to risk 2 hazard dice for someone else and getting some coins, but no one is willing to give you victory points anymore. Do you risk it and try and finish the game off now, knowing the player after you has likely a better hand? Or do you try for the long game?

You pass on the option, after all, 2 hazard dice is too risky to your score. But you really just want in somebody's mission..by now they all now you're willing to do it for free just to cycle the hand...and so they won't negotiate.

It gets to your turn and you figure the best option is to get rid of the best mission your opponent can use, and attempt another round.

Sadly, his deck is strong enough but just barely to make it to a mission..you did succeed to make it harder for him, but he drew what he needed at the times he needed to finish.

With this example: for #2. You don't necessarily get screwed by bad draws cause if your negotiation is cycling the deck and keeping this in mind, people will gladly take you in unless you're winning. And for #1: part of the game happens on the negotiation, it is still a deck building game. To me, moonrakers has to be one of the most misunderstood games I've ever played: most people play it as straight as a deck builder, and that doesn't work. If you go full negotiation and lie a lot, it won't work either.

It's such a bizarre game. But it is good.

[Mykandera]

A few more reasons to not back it.

- Moonrakers really needs 4-5, even 3 is a weaker experience. You know what's a better game at 5, and at least comparable at 4? Sidereal Confluence. You lose the deck building (but you're still building a tableau) but solve all the other problems. Positive negotiations, enforced deals, more trading possibilities, a lot more variety, less downtime for players, and will take roughly the same time once you're familiar with Sidereal.

- The way negotiation works is you can backstab the person initiating the contract but they can't backstab you back. It's a one way street. Sure the deck building and draw means you could, in good faith, promise to try and help out and still fail, but you can also just lie and suffer no real in-game consequence for it unless you voluntary take on a consequence as part of the negotiation. That's fine if you're not dealing with immediate rewards but you are dealing with immediate rewards.

- Binding Ties adds in some much needed alternatives to control the breakdown of the negotiation aspect as someone approaches the win condition, but it's still a problem. The core gameplay mechanic becomes an active problem at the end game, and the game is basically built around the need to literally do a 180 on the gameplay at the end. Nothing like playing one game for 90 mins only to find out you're playing a completely opposite game the last 30.

[timbirk]

I was litteraly searching this exact video an hour ago, and here it is, uploaded 30 minutes later😀😀

[TalenLee]

I'm still leading on 'the game will cost a butt to ship to Australia, ' and 'Kickstarter have still not made official their divestment from blockchain technology.'

[geromecarlos]

I canceled my pledge. Thank you and your reason, good sir!

[MocsokKulturTorzo]

No! No! No, Chris George! You are not doing to me this again, not with Moonrakers! :)
I am very committed to this campaign, but I think you raised very good points again. I am willing go with all expansions blindly as probably this is going to me my best chance buying this in Hungary, and Binding Ties and Overload seems to essential. More cards, and incentivized negotiation all make sense to me. Actually Nomad also make sense to erase some negotations and shorten the time to make a deal.
If this won't work for my game group than I still have an exclusive stuff to sell as this will not be widely available locally.
One I'm struggling a bit and made the most sense is you talking about that the game does not need this production. Which is logically fine, but I think Veiled Fate is also elevated by how the game looks, makes people intrigued right away, I liked you have spacial elements to this bluffing/deduction game. And I have a same feeling with Moonrakers. I instantly went wow, and I think most people will. Meaning it will be easy to get to the table.
I honestly don't feel the need of metal everything, I does not click for me visually. I really like the vibrant plastic pieces on the table, so that was easy to resist.
I'm still at $340, but I'm getting Mythic Mischief as well and saving a lot on shipping with the rates they are offering.

[TheAmazingYeti]

Quack just proved how difficult it is to make these types of videos. You have been validated!

I too find this game VERY expensive for what it is. With that being said here are my top 5 reasons not to back:

1. Game cost outweighs gameplay. This absolutely does not play like a $180 game.
2. Negotiation games absolutely require the right gaming group.
3. Severe lack of theme. Sure the new expansions helps.. but it doesn't appear to be significant.
4. Card text is tiny, the game could benefit from some iconography so you don't have to lean across the table every time a new cards pops up.
5. Solo and Co-op require an app.. Not a huge deal.. just can't help but feel that this seems tacked on.

Granted I am pretty sure I am getting this myself. I think the expansions address every issue I had with the base game. I also wish I could find a few hundred dollars to go super premium with this game. Instead.. I will just settle on standard issue premium .

[TheMarvin]

Thanks for this Chris. Helped me make a decision to pass on it. Was definitely on the fence anyways and it is not the game for me at this time. For the record, that is the first time you have talked me out of a game I was interested in. Well done!

[raider]

I was absolutely blown away by how expensive this game is... When I saw a playthrough for the game I thought it looked like a $40-50 game with added on metal coins which I didn't want. Didn't know they were mandatory. But $180 for the big box is crazy to me. It's literally more than everything separately even though they're definitely not spending as much on 1 box as 4 separate boxes. Definitely can't justify that kind of price.

[dcrbdh]

It's my understanding that Overload "fixes" some things that were wrong with the game. Also Dominion 2nd edition big box is $70 Canadian. Dune Imperium +Ix is $100 Canadian. Moonrakers is gonna net around $120 Canadian with less cards.