Rasmus Lerdorf : PHP Frameworks all suck !

Rasmus Lerdorf, créateur de PHP, critique ouvertement les frameworks PHP généralistes.

[jamesvicary]

Using Laravel I create applications and websites for clients 2 - 3 times faster than before. More reliable and other Laravel Developers can also maintain the code in the future. Ultimately my job is easier, client pays less money and company makes a bigger profit. Where is the downside to that? Sometimes I think we need to remember why we code, clients don't care how or why we did what we did, just that it works and costs as little as possible. In this sense frameworks are amazing.

[helloworld]

This is conference from 2013, at which time frameworks was new. Today they pretty much work just fine.

[albertrannetsperger]

I been saying this all along... PHP doesn't suck. The way people are using it sucks.

[flavienb]

Frameworks are made to unify the way to code, so nobody loses time to understand the badly written code of another developer.
Perfect for both developers and companies.

[cocoiyeah]

Agree 100% sir. Use only what you need

[RiteshSingh_]

It is true not only in PHP, but most of the programming languages. Frameworks are easier to program software with, but they are pain at the same time.

[RupeeSalzburg]

He does not take into account the overhead of learning new frameworks. While I think that finding the best solution for your problem is generally the right way to go, it must be remembered that learning a new framework takes time and often involves under-utilization or even misuse of all that framework has to offer.

[this.channel]

So is it correct to use a micro framework that just takes care of routing and plugging things you require in from composer? In this way, it's a modular system. You update the libraries you import when there is a need to update them.

[gmanon]

Some PHP CMS offer also a separate framework (for Developers) where you can choose what to use and how to build your applications with it.

The worst thing I see on frameworks is that they are too bulky in their core. I don't know if it's that they call all the class files at once or what; but many are incredible slow. Before PHP programmers were into the fashion of Frameworks, applications were really fast.

Probably the issue is that small shops websites should not use those frameworks. It takes too much resources to make them work fast.

[rn]

Great video, makes complete sense. Frameworks are multiuse so they have a lot of bloated things you will no need or use.

[ahmadmayahi]

I’m sure he’s going change his mind when he sees Symfony 4+

[lexsoft]

I have a little knowledge and experience in php. Due to need for projects, I have to decide which php framework to use. There are two which came to mind : YII 2 and Laravel. I read their documentation, and found that Laravel was really hard to learn for me : high level of abstraction, many new concepts that are difficult to understand. I could deal with its installation process with composer, some configuration, request lifecycle which gave me some confidence that I would be able to learn and begin to use it after no later than 1 month. But when I read topic about service container : class binding, etc, I began to struggle. I thought Laravel only suited developers who had solid skills in php, design pattern and other related things.
I am still planning to learn it, but I will probably turn to YII 2 which I found relatively easier to learn and use for nearest project.
Btw, my boss asked if we could learn Laravel in 3 days. Uh... frameworks are not like Ms Excel or some specific purpose libraries such as javascript datatables, handsontable or even mpdf which we can begin to use after learning in 3 days.

[afiasheikh]

Framework users are the poeple who doesn't like to type...and need fast solution with less coding...but the core users are the people who like to know about everything they are doing and likes to control the code

[deltadek]

TRONGATE!!! THE FIRST PURE PHP BARE METAL FRAMEWORK!

[krazysaudi]

Well said. Current most popular frameworks limit the creativity, overload servers, complicate programming & slow down upgrades overtime.

[johnmahugu]

i prefer using a microframework with additional classes for ORM etc

[BharatShah-tyuj]

i was struggling to make those people understand. 1000% agreee.

[trefwoordpunk]

Trongate PHP framework should change his mind that at least one framework doesn’t suck!!!! Trongate is the only framework that is in line with rasmus original philosophy on php!!!

[DanielJohnHowTo]

never used a framework, looked into them though. always built from scratch.

[hyperCMS]

So true. If you want to have (more or less) full control of your code and the performance than avoid them.