Concert Pitch and Transposing?? Your Music Theory Homework (Episode 4)

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[SilverAg]

A useful trick for trombone players that want to read Bb treble music (trumpet, clarinet, tenor sax, etc.) - you can pretend it is in tenor clef and then just add two flats to the key signature (to "un-Bb" it). You'll have to be careful with accidentals since some will be odd but it works well

[jay_giffin_]

Great video! Thank you so much! This is so complicated, but you made it seem very simple.

[vspatmx]

4th video..
And finally understood.

U explained it bloody well..

Talking bout old legacy problem is what made sense..

[TrentHamilton]

Sorry Chris, a few inaccuracies here. The Horn is typically 18 feet long (although there is an uncommon descant horn in F that is only 9 feet) - but the players play up an octave higher than compared to other brass instruments. Your comments about Tuba are only true with Bb tubas - if you give it to CC tubas, or Eb, or F tubas then it's a different case. Also, with brass band instruments, treble clef is written as transposing clef, whilst bass clef is in concert pitch, regardless of the instrument playing it. I've made a video on this topic too :)

[johns]

I play tuba and baritone, but don’t know diddly about music theory…this was one of the first comprehendable explanations of the whole “concert pitch” thing I’ve seen!

[robertorselino]

Thank you! As a high school trombone player I had no clue what everyone was talking about with transposing etc. now I love the trombone even more.

[randyleazenby]

I agree. The reason for the difference in concert pitch vs written pitch is because of the instruments of different sizes in different keys. by rewriting the music the player does not have to learn a different sent of fingerings for each size instrument. It is the same with woodwind instruments except for the recorders. Since they did not make it into our modern orch. the fingerings and music are different for each size recorder,

[ahmadsubehsmarbleruns]

This is probably my favorite video!!! You just answered the question I've always wanted to know the reason of.

[Vegasbill]

I played the alto sax in high school band . Which is pitched in Eb. And I was told that that a decision was made to keep the fingering for the entire saxophone family the same. but because the different saxophones are physically different sizes with different tube lengths the note pitches will not be the same. While it does make it easier for you to learn one saxophone and be able to switch to any other saxophone, the pitch will be different so it's still confusing anyway.

[rolfs]

Here in Germany the trombone and baritone play a c as a b-flat if it is written in treble clef and a c as a c if it is written in bass-clef.
But not for church music where a c is always a c.
I think the root of this system comes from the time when instruments did not have valves. E.g. if you have a French Horne in F and you play something it is written in C but it is played in F. Then switch to a French Horn built for in B-flat and play the music again. Now you it is played in B-flat. This was important in those times when the sheets are handwritten. Nobody wants to rewrite the music sheets for a whole orchestra by hand just to change the key.
As explained more here (2:30 ...) before the French Horn had valves they used crooks to change the open note of the instrument.

[craigsproston]

Brass band 1st and 2nd trombones play same notated notes as trumpet in treble clef

[Guidussify]

The French horn sounds a perfect 5th below the written note. But, thank goodness, I play the piano and we never even think about this madness!

[pavlodeshko]

but why?? Bb is just a tone lower than C, why not produce those instruments a bit smaller, so their home scale would be C major like with most instruments? fifth down will make an F (instead of Eb), which is one step on the circle of fifth - no craziness like A major turning into freaking Gb major with 6 signs!

[WiskundeJuffiedeurLizetteBooys]

Wow! That is BEAUTIFULLY explained are you mad? 😂 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[esiotrot]

Sorry to disappoint you Mr Bill. The Horn in F is actually about 12 foot long same as contrabass trombone in F and bass tubas in F. Due to the small bore and small mouthpiece it's "easy" harmonics start not at the 2nd and 3rd like on most brass but at about the 12th which is why it is such a hard instrument.
Edit. The Horn in F reading standard treble clef sounds a fifth lower than written rather than a fourth higher. It sounds a fourth higher in old style bass clef.

[wilfdarr]

First day of grade 7 I got my trumpet assigned, didn't even wait to get home before I had it out and was looking at the fingering chart. Up to that point I had perfect pitch and on playing "middle C" immediately realized something was very wrong!
Since then, my perfect pitch sadly disintegrated: I'll think of a note, then question if it's concert or trumpet, then transpose, then question, then transpose... in short its a mess.
Just something to consider if you're considering trumpet and have perfect pitch: you may want to stick to B flat instruments if your perfect pitch is important to you.

[SuperJxl]

now lets expand beyond brass and introduce an alto flute and an alto sax. the alto flute is in G and the alto sax is in Eb. oh and also there are clarinets in A, and tons of more obscure instruments in even weirder keys.

[eyesonly]

So as a trombone player, when I see a G, play a G, and it comes out as a G, is that because (a) trombones are non-valved and can play any tone within their range, (b) music composers simply got lazy and said f... it, just print a G if the trombone is supposed to play a G, or (c) the whole trombone section formed a union and had it written in their contract to only play the notes on the page in front of them no matter how it sounded?

[xDmayrxD]

There is another interesting thing about trumpet players and the whole notated vs played tones: In symphonic music (e. g. Richard Strauss, Gustav Mahler, etc) there are no notated pitches (so no flats or sharps at the front of every line), but instead it states in which key the piece should be played. These key typically change during a piece - so a classical trumpet player has to transpose the notated music to the pitch his instrument is actually tuned in.

[thereallyinterestingpictur]

We were taught in orchestration class that All horns sound "down", meaning that a French horn given a middle C sounds the F one fifth below, not the F one fourth above.