What You Need To Know About Pedal Clones

This weeks Monday Monolog is all about cloning. How can companies make what seems to be exact copies of other popular pedals?

#jhs #thejhsshow #clones #guitrapedal #princeoftone #dukeoftone #kingoftone #analogman #tradedress

[jhspedals]

Just a reminder that any comments asking you to message us on telegram are spam, not us!

[guitarsandguitaraccessories]

I'm mortified at the thought that changing your mind is a sign of weakness. That's a sign of a broken society in my mind. Changing your mind is the most fantastic thing you can do. It means you learned something, and no matter where we are in life, we're never done learning.

[RobGibsonPFM]

“Discussing things as intelligent humans” without just straight up arguing has become such a rare thing nowadays. I love this channel so much because of this open discussion format.

[TJEvans]

Chef "patenting a cheeseburger." a food "product" can't really be patented, but a recipe can be "claimed, " or "credited." It's generally known in the industry that if you want to claim a recipe as "yours" it must have 3 different ingredients or processes as any other recipe. So, for somebody wanting to "clone" the Popeyes chicken breading recipe, they must replace 3 ingredients or processes. It's not really a "patent, " though, just a "claim." It only gets into legal territory when a recipe is published.

Like food, though, I think of the pedal industry in much the same way. For instance....somebody that doesn't know how to cook well, may be addicted to say ribeye steak. Sure, Ruth's Chris might have "THE BEST" steaks around, but $57 for a slab of meat....with no sides? Meanwhile, I could got to Texas Roadhouse and get the same exact cut of meat with 3 sides for $20.99. Will it taste the same....all in all, probably, but I won't get the atmosphere, or the "prestige" of eating at Ruth's Chris. What if $20.99 is too pricy for you. Well, you can always go to Walmart and get yourself a raw ribeye, take it home and cook it.

Let's use the King of Tone as an example, since it's really, the easiest to compare. You could get on the 4-5 year wait list, and spend $275, or buy a used one for more than $500...If you NEED the Ruth's Chris experience. It will come with all the prestige, and oohs and aahs from your friends. Or, you can get the various 1:1 clones that are out there, right now, for under $100 and be satisfied. If you want to learn to cook for yourself....go get a $15 PCB, some cheap as all get out parts, and heat up your soldering iron.

My general opinion is that a steak is a steak is a steak. A circuit is a circuit is a circuit. In the pedal world, is "American made, " even a thing? American "assembled, " yes, but every single guitar pedal in the world is made up of I would guess 95% (or more) parts that are made in China. So, as far as I'm concerned, the main difference with 1:1 clones is brand loyalty....similar to guitars. Personally, I love doing puzzles, so building my own pedals has become a very rewarding hobby, and I have a personal appreciation for every one of my creations.

[murfmurphy]

These are the TED talks of the pedal industry. I've not only enjoyed these immensely but I have taken these concepts and thinking and applied to my own field. Literally the adjacent possible :). Well done Josh, I love this series.

[progresspedals]

Couple points: 1. The JHS show, with its overall themes of curiosity, discernment, experimentation, and creativity- dare I say history and community as well- it is doing the work of informing us on how to think critically about these issues. So even if Josh says something I disagree with in a single episode, the greater context and foundation of the brand and the shows make plenty of room for constructive discussion. 2. I have build pedals for fun, started with BYOC, moved on over ten+ years to be able to breadboard and modify and keep learning, stepping up to building tube amps as well. Everything I have learned on that journey has led me to be even more sure that when I'm buying a professional pedal, I'm making informed decisions on how I support builders with my dollars. 3. Musicians, have you ever been at a nice venue at a local show and thought, "I could do that, I should be up there." And then you start a band and find yourself playing on that same stage later on, after some hard work? Well, I think that Josh's own origin story and his choice of how he formed his channel and brand is inspiring many of us to say in the pedal world, "I could do that." And its fun, and good, and drives interest and innovation. In my case, I've played on stages that I dreamed of, and I dream that one day, a 250 clone I make will reside at the bottom of a certain red-bearded man's junk drawer. It can happen. 4. Idea for future show: "Knowledge Gaps" assemble a panel and in the Q&A, ask the question, "what is something you never learned, got good at, or always outsource despite being super knowledgeable/skillful about so many other relevant things?" For me, it would be stacking drives- been playing 28 years, basically a total novice about stacking. And recording. I always had the wrong home recording gear and there was always someone better at recording that me in my band/friend groups.

[CritterElectronics]

I’m a pedal builder as my sole trade, these Monday monologues are like “The Pedal News.” I watch the news while building pedals, thanks Josh.

[garygood]

You've got great morals and business ethics. That comes from the heart and I can see it. You're doing fantastic work, left, right and center.

[mattcarnevali]

I really respect Josh for telling that story about the Fuzz Factory

[lowheadroom]

This is simply one of the most INTERESTING and EDUCATIONAL videos on this channel. I was gripped the entire time. Please more content like this! My favorite content on this channel is the HISTORY and EDUCATIONAL material. I love the other stuff too. Keep it coming! Thanks for doing this video.

[bradsims]

Because of that episode I bought a bunch of behringer pedals. I almost immediately sold them to replace them with the original boss pedal if i liked it. I never would have tried most of them for $110 but for $30 I figured it was worth a shot.

[chrisbrink]

I buy pedals on sounds I am looking for. I try to get them for as cheap as I can. Unless I am looking for a vintage one that I had back in the day or want the "real" one would be the only time I would be willing to spend the money. If I can try a sound for cheap that is a copy of another pedal I don't see any issue, but I don't think making a pedal to look exactly like it's clone is a good idea. I do have the D-fx tube screamerII pedal and the AT-DS one (which I got before knowing the JHS one, sorry) They sound ok for the prices. I feel your right on with the trade dress problem on some pedals and understand why it makes you upset. Your a gentleman and a pedal scholar josh Thank you for your time and effort with these vids and shows!! As a side note, before watching these shows over the past year I only had 5 pedals and a few processor amps, not it's well over 100!!! Thanks for making me a total pedal junkie looking for his next fix.

[powerkor]

Demon fx King of Drive is an awesome pedal thankyou - yes I am in the 5th category "people that want to save money" when speculating in pedal purchases

[ZAID..]

Usually, I do not spend a full Hour Watching anything on YouTube, this is the Only Exception because its Useful & you can Learn Something!

[patricklemire]

When I was a kid the bike to have was a Schwinn. My parents got me a Huffy. It was a good bike but it wasn’t a Schwinn. My dad was a machinist and he couldn’t see the practical reason to pay over 2x for bike. He grew in the depression so the fact that I was getting a new bike for Christmas was much better than he experienced. I learned a lesson about trade dress (it looked a lot like a Schwinn but not enough to make me a cool kid) and not getting exactly what you want all the time. I’m not sure what this has to do with pedals :)

[andrewmcrory]

Hands down one of your best “ted talk”-style videos. IP is a very important topic, not just for pedal manufacturers, but artists of any kind (especially photographers). Support legitimate producers of quality products!

[Severinate]

My daughter (16) has a friend that's really into guitar, actually studying music at college. She wanted to get into pedals, and they asked my advice. I told her, get a zoom multi-fx, or get a bunch of 'Behringer' pedals, see which you like, and swap them out for Boss pedals.

[RockG.o.d]

I have a cheap behringer eq pedal. Because I wasn’t really sure the effect it would have. I then purchased the boss 10 eq pedal. I used to have. A clone tube screamer. I now have an Ibanez tube screamer. I liked the cheap pedals when I was starting out. As it allowed me to try a few pedals when I wasn’t sure. Without the cheaper clones, I wouldn’t have purchased other pedals. Since getting helix floor, I purchased more pedals as I discovered more.

[DerekRonin]

Great Monday talk! Great email from B! I feel the same way, I can barely play and the most expensive pedal in the world would not change that. My kids are my only audience, so I inexpensive clone has been my route. I watch all your stuff to get an idea what sounds are available and go the clone route. My most expensive pedal is the Ocean 11 reverb, lol. IMO clones are a compliment to the original and pushes the industry to innovative, design and develop.

[melhakenson]

Josh, Just got off work and watched this video. I agree that this topic was well overdue. I own thousands of dollars worth of yours and many, many other major manufacturers pedals. I actually own multiple of Analogman’s pedal, including a Prince of Tone. Ill admit that when i first saw the 68 Pedals King of Clone I initially thought about buying one because this specific pedal is currently unobtainable, i am on a 3-1/2 year waiting list for the real King of Tone. I have heard word on the “forum that will not be named” that Analogman does not have enough of the parts left to satisfy the current waitlist. I have already seen youtube video’s proclaiming the King of Tone’s being made currently are inferior to KOT’s made just a few years ago. I was never interested in purchasing any of the other 68 Pedals/Demonfx/Ly-Rock pedals because they are all readily available for purchase under $300 at the most. If so many were NOT on the King of Tone list to turn around and make profit from these pedals then the waitlist could be cut in half. There are currently 19 King of Tones on Reverb right now with the least price being $750 (There are 11 v4 High Gain KOT’s with the least price being $785). Would these not be considered unobtainable?We also know that the Prince of Tone (and Duke of Tone) do not sound exactly like the King of Tone. Reputable site “That Pedal Show” dedicated an entire episode to showing this; that it has a different mid-range frequency and that stacking 2x does not come close to the KOT. In the end i did not choose to purchase from any of these trade-dress infringement companies but they continue to operate mostly because of there King of Tone knock off’s; as evident from how many you-tube video’s are out there comparing the two. They compare them from sound perspectives and also have complete analysis’ of the circuit structure and components used. Just food for thought.