Speed and Penetration Comparison: Longbow vs. different Reflexbows

My little comparison of speed and penetration of a longbow and same poundage reflex bows in different length. Just to see if there is a difference or not.

The bows in the video are:

Varang Lux Longbow

Jurchen (manchustyle)

Janissary Turkish

Short Manchu

Saracen

KTB 2 Korean

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[scandinavianarcher]

Having multiple bows, and making bows, I would say, that there is no doubt that a light curly tipped, short limmed bow with long draw is far more efficient than a long, wide heavy limmed longbow.

The amount of mass needed to be moved, and the profile of it, also has a huge impact on the efficiency.

[allluri]

longbow 28"
15gpp: 124fps
12, 5gpp: 133fps
9gpp: 135fps
penetrations @ 13:44

korean 31"
15gpp: 143fps
12, 5gpp: 147fps
9gpp: 144fps
penetrations @ 24:46

janissary 27" and a bit
15gpp: 142fps
12, 5gpp: 147fps
9gpp: 156fps
penetrations @ 20:40

saracen 28"
15gpp: 141fps
12, 5gpp: 146fps
9gpp: 155fps
penetrations @ 22:28

manchu 34"
15gpp: 163fps
12, 5gpp: 161fps
9gpp: 171fps
penetrations @ 18:00

jurchen 34"?
15gpp: 146fps
12, 5gpp: 142fps
9gpp: 147fps
penetrations @ 15:51

Looks like the longbow heavy arrows might've hit the same soft patch as the jurchen.
To my eyes, penetration and speed wise: longbow worst, manchu best, rest are very similar.

[VladMcMerlin]

I'd say the logic is the same as with the gun barrel length - the longer is the bullet's contact with the propulsive power, the more energy it gets.

[Jiyukan]

Nice experiment. As I'm contemplating about that stuff, too.
Some things:
1) energy of an object is force times distance of acceleration. So if two bows have the same "force", on the first glance the one you draw out further provides more energy to the arrow. But ... yeah, there are some buts, so we come to that later
2) you only made one mistake: the faster the arrow, the more energy it has. And hence should penetrate deeper. Energy of an arrow is velocity (speed) squared - times - the mass. (v^2 * m).
The tricky part is to figure how heavy an arrow for a certain bow should be (see below), that you get an optimal _energy_ for that arrow.
3) In school physics, we learn about springs. Basically the base for calculating energy transfer of a bow to an arrow, a spring that gets compressed and then uncoils. Problem: we idealize the spring and assume it is a kind of invisible energy storage, and when its energy is releases all the energy gets into the object, in this case the arrow.

Oki, the "buts".
As you draw the bow, you realize the force/power you need varies over the course. Hence when you release the arrow, the force pushing on the arrow is simply the analogon of the force you used to pull it at every distance.
Bow design most certainly can influence how much force the bow is giving to the arrow at a certain point of draw length.
Regarding the "spring" example above: a huge deal of the energy is used to "accelerate" the spring back into its original position.
So a long bow, with heavy throwing arms, will retain a higher deal of energy in its throwing arms than a more light asian bow. Hence it will transfer less energy into the arrow, hence the arrows are slower.
The next point is: the speed of the "uncoiling" of the spring/bow. It is related to the previous point. The slower the bow can unleash its energy, the slower the arrow will be.
So you have to find a balance between:
draw weight
draw length
speed of the bow to flex back
weight of the arrow

However mathematically/physically the only thing that counts in the end is arrow weight versus arrow speed.

m * v * v. Mass times speed times speed. Or mass times speed squared. That means: if you double the weight of an arrow, and it has the same speed, you doubled the energy.
If you take the light original arrow and double its speed: you quadruppled its energy.

[mikeorick]

Length of the power stroke matters too. Why my 80lb target crossbow (10in) and 40lb recurve (20in) shoot 400grain arrows the same speed. Why a 150lb longbow can shoot farther (235m v 250m) than a 1200lb crossbow with the same 1350grain weight arrow/bolt.

[darrensimms]

Great shooting armin even with ur knackered shoulder great stuff brother

[arashardalan]

Maestro of precision and consistency! Like music. Super nice. Great video, I was having same question with some local archers last week believe it or not.

[harlinwall]

This is a great video! Recently I had a discussion with a friend (James) about this exact topic...and you couldn't have better timing with this video. A bow which provide a longer power stroke should generally be able to transfer more of the stored energy from the flexed limb to the arrow. Heavier arrows should have greater kinetic energy, allowing for better penetration. The Manchu bow demonstrates this very well. Efficiently sending heavier arrows with deep penetration by utilizing a long draw. (And of course, as you mentioned, at higher draw weights, the effectiveness of these long leverage producing siyahs would accentuate the results even more.) You can imagine the advantage against foe wearing armor. Very interesting topic! It should generate some healthy discussions. Regardless of how scientific...it was a very cool test. Thank you for the time and effort put into this video. And best of all, thanks for sharing it with our community.

[peterparsons]

This is tremendously useful information. It’s so difficult to find useful quick reference information. Depending who you talk to, you get different opinions, and many people have a bias. As a novice archer, it was quite a challenge to focus on one style of Bow.
My application is for big game hunting, and recreational shooting. Many options available today, much more than even 10 years ago.
Traditional archery is becoming more popular, who would have imagined that It would take this long to get back to an ancient technology. Great vid..interesting.

[rex-yv]

The bowmen of Crecy and Agincourt drew 35/36 inches using longbows around 6'4". The draw weight is assumed to be a standard 70 or 80 pounds. The nearest bow to the medieval longbow seems to be the yumi.

[jme]

What I mean is the longer the push, the more energy but if the arrows leave different bows at a same speed the length of the push doesn't matter, only the speed matter providing the use of same arrows .

[MountainHomeJerrel]

Very cool to see you shoot the various bows. Thanks for the video!

[tammynfletcher]

I really liked this comparison. But it really shows the design differences and where there power stoke is for each one. That is where I think the speed and penetration come into play. But it does show that the same poundage at different powerstrokes makes a significant difference. Thanks my friend I do hope Peter watches this!

[jenjen]

That was interesting, thanks Armin👍

24:38 😂

Like the new musical intro.

[VeryHappyAmmo]

Ah. Excellent subject from my favorite Youtube archery instructor!

[PooMonkeyMan]

I haven’t sent your videos for a while, but coming back now and the production quality is A+. Like you made some major improvements to camera equipment and editing.

[kungfuskull]

Interesting. Reminds me of another test I've seen done where they used a (I think) 1200lb crossbow and 80lb longbow and got effectively identical results: showing that other factors matter such as draw length, head shape, mass, etc... hrm... food for thought.

[BLACKXARCHERY]

Lol straight called him out. Great job and excellent shooting and awesome test. Love this stuff. I eat this up for breakfast

[watchmanjeremiah]

Well said. Nothing like a good War bow video. The more you know the better off you are.

[OlivierNeu]

Some interesting results. It's not undisputable evidence, but there is a clear difference in performance between bow designs.
With the added performance increase from
a thumb ring and khatra, you can say 'Asiatic style' has better performance with the same draw weight.
Great work Armin! Nice to watch 😃