The Extension of Mind Through Space and the Sense of Being Stared At: Sheldrake-Vernon Dialogue 82

The Sense of Being Stared at and the Extension of Mind Through Space: Sheldrake-Vernon Dialogue 82

Do our minds reside solely inside our heads, or perhaps bodies? Or do they extend into the wider world, perhaps even reaching to the stars? In this episode of the Sheldrake-Vernon Dialogues, Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon discuss the extended mind theory, taking a lead from recent work of Rupert’s on the sense of being stared at, and also the problems that contemporary science has with understanding vision. The discussion considers new research carried out by Rupert and others, as well as the theories of A.N. Whitehead. The way in which science since Maxwell has considered light as moving backwards as well as forwards in time is explored, alongside the way that William Blake described how we see, which itself fits the ancient understanding, that seeing is an active process of engagement, not a passive mode of reception.

Rupert references two published papers. One is on the nature of visual perception, co-written with Alex Gomez-Marin, online here:

The other is on directional scopaesthesia, co-written with Pamela Smart, online here:

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Dr Rupert Sheldrake, PhD, is a biologist and author best known for his hypothesis of morphic resonance. At Cambridge University, as a Fellow of Clare College, he was Director of Studies in biochemistry and cell biology. As the Rosenheim Research Fellow of the Royal Society, he carried out research on the development of plants and the ageing of cells, and together with Philip Rubery discovered the mechanism of polar auxin transport. In India, he was Principal Plant Physiologist at the International Crops Research Institute for the Semi-Arid Tropics, where he helped develop new cropping systems now widely used by farmers. He is the author of more than 100 papers in peer-reviewed journals and his research contributions have been widely recognized by the academic community, earning him a notable h-index for numerous citations. On ResearchGate his Research Interest Score puts him among the top 4% of scientists.

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Dr Mark Vernon is a psychotherapist and writer with a rich academic background in physics, theology, and philosophy. He contributes to programmes on the radio, writes and reviews for newspapers and magazines, gives talks and podcasts. His books have covered themes including friendship and God, ancient Greek philosophy and wellbeing. His new book, out August 2019, is "A Secret History of Christianity: Jesus, the Last Inkling and the Evolution of Consciousness". He has a PhD in ancient Greek philosophy, and other degrees in physics and in theology, and works as a psychotherapist in private practice. He used to be an Anglican priest.

Mark's latest book is...
A Secret History of Christianity: Jesus, the Last Inkling, and the Evolution of Consciousness

[eugenesokol]

I love Dr. Rupert Sheldrake. He should be deemed the "Saint of Science." Can't wait to learn more from this great man.

[stacey_rh]

One of the most under rated minds in western modern society. Best wishes Rupert

[TriggerIreland]

Fascinating. I love the humility of these two gentlemen. "I hope these talks are useful", says Mr Vernon. I would venture they're about as useful as true north to a compass. Thank you.

[susanfay]

Amazing dialogue between these two luminaries. My mind is a bit gob-smacked after the first listen - these two minds romp through paradigm busting ideas like sun beams. I feel a little left in the dust and have to listen again!
With Rupert, the ideas are always so surprising and yet so simple and natural and ultimately make so much sense. And they also often strike my heart and get it involved as well -- that's why his theories and ideas seem so JUICY to me.
Thank you both for these precious dialogues.

[Johnny_RB]

One of the most interesting conversations I've listened to in a while. Thank you both.

[davepuxley]

In Ennead 1.1, Plotinus argues that the soul (ψυχή) is interwoven (συμπλέκτη) with the body 'as/like light' - another wonderful point of agreement with both the Indian and Mediaeval sources.

Thank you for this!

[Lelabear]

Fascinating! Reminded me of an open-eye meditation session I did once at an Ashram where the teacher showed us how to "reverse" our vision so instead of looking "out" we drew the energy "in." Then we had to look the teacher directly in the eyes while pulling in. That 15 minute exercise produced some of the most profound visual hallucinations I have ever experienced.

[YTC]

Very good thank you what comes to mind is - ‘To see a World in a grain of sand and a heaven in a wild flower, hold Infinity in the palm of your hand and eternity in an hour'. (W Blake)

[alexandervideo]

Rupert, your kind of thinking is very close to my mind... Thanks!

[blackbird]

How I love these conversations! 16.30 but God doesn't need to discover where things are & what is happening, since God is the very being & source of everything - not just an entity amid others, but Being Itself / Amself. So there is nothing unknown to or uncaused by God. The very concept of God is the ultimate reality at the core & everything ... nothing exists without (outside) God. So God doesn't need sense organs through which to find out things. Such a being would be 'a god' (demigod? demiurge?) within the created world, rather than the creator /God.
An absolutely wonderful, gripping conversation, as always. I love Mark's note that what's looking out is as important as what's coming in ... (our cultural conditioning etc) The time-reversal ideas are utterly fascinating. Thank you both! 🙏

[stevencook]

To whatever extent one can incorporate Buddhist cosmological philosophy into this topic, it may be of interest to note that the fundamentals of Buddhism assert that mind and space are two words for the same thing.

[spiritlevelstudios]

Thanks for the fat stack of uploads recently 🙏🏻💙☯️

[amanitamuscaria]

I think it's the Mandaka Upanishad that poses the question, What is it by knowing which, I will know all things? The answer is consciousness, Brahman. It's astonishing to me that Indian philosophers were addressing these question hundreds of years ago. Swami Sarvapriyananda has some wonderful talks on the Upanishads, the Bhagavat Gita and other works. I loved this conversation. Thank you.

[johnbrowne]

An accident showed me a feature of my 'consciousness'. I fell into an irrigation "wasteway" that took excess water down to the Columbia River at a Very steep angle. As I slid down on the algae-covered concrete, my mind suddenly produced an image of newspapers being printed & stacking up.. & when I could read their front page it was about a "teenage boy dies in plunge into the river". In other words it was predicting my future as best it could, given the info at hand. The final 3m of this plume was a different medium, upon which my wet trousers slowly skidded to a halt.. & I didn't go over the edge, to land on the boulders 10m below. At the point where I stopped, my mind was.. blank. Very revealing to me! ^..^

[suzannabirarelli]

The concept of time & space is hard to grasp for our 3D mind until we can accept that time is not linear...and vision and all other senses is an experience in consciousness. Thank you for this interesting conversation:)

[chrisd]

Good stuff. How to we 'see' in dreams? How are the DMT elves 'seen'?

[TylerClibbon]

still very inspiring after all these years rupert. my wish is to see you debate all the skeptics on all their podcasts and win, i know its combative but i think its the right thing to do, we need you!

[sbsman]

"Where visual and mental meet" could explain why Autistics often describe eye contact as painfully intense making most conversation very difficult/impossible. Me speaking to groups, two or more people, very much changes my personal perceptions being overwhelmed by gazes intensity of unfathomable incoming energy = concentration kaput! This makes Autists vulnerable to bullying when others detect perceived "weakness" of their interpersonal interactions or inability to effectively manage incoming energies from light magnifying strange eyes. Many decades of outdoor living/backpacking I very often noticed how animals when surprised instantly intensely make eye contact even at very far distances and also how animals, especially Road Runner, has strange ability to see my mind's eye thus able to better camouflage themselves accordingly, they know what I see! ~

[nonordinaryreality]

Photons moving in opposite direction that collide might explain why you cant find the needle....?

[michaeldavidson]

I think Rupert was impressed by some of the hosts Blake. So, well done, there. Think I will subscribe.