The Trinity: A Philosophical Inquiry | Episode 1910 | Closer To Truth

Can the Christian Trinity make sense? It seems the ultimate riddle: How could One God be Three Persons? How could One be Three? Or Three be One? And why three? Non-believers and believers can both enjoy the logic and linguistics. Featuring interviews with Peter van Inwagen, Oliver Crisp, Michael Rea, Brian Leftow, and Richard Swinburne.

Season 19, Episode 10 - #CloserToTruth

Closer To Truth host Robert Lawrence Kuhn takes viewers on an intriguing global journey into cutting-edge labs, magnificent libraries, hidden gardens, and revered sanctuaries in order to discover state-of-the-art ideas and make them real and relevant.

Closer to Truth presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.

#Trinity #Theology

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[MultiAmmar]

I am muslim and I had absolutely no idea where he (the first scholar who was interviewed) got the idea that "muslims and jews" agree that, and that "muslims more so" believe that, the answer for the question of why did God create us is that part of the answers involves us believing he created us as group(s) and that somehow supports his notion of trinity as sort of needing a relationship between the three. What is he talking about? Where does islam say that this is the reason why he created us?

First of that makes no sense how can a God somehow need multiple to have divine attributes of "love" for example, so is God not all knowing? Can he not even have attributes which us humans require other people in order to have without having another "God" or another divine thing (which is also part of and is itself the same God).

Also about his assertion about Islam I had absolutely no idea what the hell this guy is talking about becase it is laid out very clearly based on Surah Al Thariyat (some in english think Dh is closer to ذ than Th so some may know it as Dhariyat) verse 56 where it says:
"{ وَمَا خَلَقۡتُ ٱلۡجِنَّ وَٱلۡإِنسَ إِلَّا لِیَعۡبُدُونِ }"
Or in english translation: "I did not create jinn and humans except to worship Me"

So I was so confused on what this guy was talking about? Where did he get this? And then I had an epiphany. Maybe this guy was talking about Surah Al Hujurat verse 13 and somehow conflating that with the muslim answer for "why did god create us?"
"يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ إِنَّا خَلَقْنَـٰكُم مِّن ذَكَرٍۢ وَأُنثَىٰ وَجَعَلْنَـٰكُمْ شُعُوبًۭا وَقَبَآئِلَ لِتَعَارَفُوٓا۟ ۚ إِنَّ أَكْرَمَكُمْ عِندَ ٱللَّهِ أَتْقَىٰكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ خَبِيرٌۭ"
"O humanity! Indeed, We created you from a male and a female, and made you into peoples [nations] and tribes so that you may ˹get to˺ know one another. Surely the most noble of you (in the sight) of Allah is the most righteous among you. Allah is truly All-Knowing, All-Aware"

And this verse is the answer for why did God create us as different peoples and different tribes (and countries and nations and groups and all that stuff). But somehow he thought this was the answer for "why did god create us" when it is very clearly stated that god created us to worship him lmao

[mikiydun]

one God only Allah, one way Islam, one book Quran. Allah is one(unique, no gender, no son or daughter, no parents, no partners, does not get tiered or sleep, does not get hungry or eat, does not become man(creation) or die, etc...)
Allah is the creator of everything not created.
nothing in the creation looks like Allah.
even the word Allah is by itself unique, impossible to exactly translate to another language, think about it....thank you peace :)

[subseen]

Each one of these guys is essentially providing different ways to debunk the trinity. It's mindboggling how they can accept it as truth when they have to play such mental gymnastics just to pretend they understand it.

[grnDestiny]

That guy at the end is like a master of arguments

[vladimir]

I knew this was a deep philosophical discussion when Batman and Bruce Wayne came into it

[breambo]

Swinburne nailed it. Prefect description of the Trinity.

[PetreCA]

I like Mr Richard Swinburne argument the most

[allenrussell]

I've been chasing this all my 60 years and the more Christian thinkers talk the more I feel like they're just making it up as they go.

[hasan]

Swinburne said "God cannot create the best of all possible worlds."
If that is the case, then he is not God. For God is all powerful, he does what he wills. Nothing is impossible for him.
And who made up this rule that unselfish love only be with minimum of 3 different persons?

He is projecting his own understanding of love. God almighty transcends our definition of love. Nothing is like God. We should stop trying to project our understanding of deity on him

[warrenmodoono]

The Trinity not only speaks to the ethereal nature of consciousness and human spirituality but also to the mechanics of physics and a defined outline within information based systems.

[elmoomle]

Any 'Christian' that believes in the Trinity, is simply ignorant of GOD's Word as contained in the pages of The HOLY Scriptures.

[stinkertoy]

Very informative. Still seems very convoluted. I suspect “the truth” will be both simpler and stranger.

[tbarrelier]

The confusion is based on a mistranslation of the Greek word "ὑπόστασις", hypostasis, which would be better rendered as "aspect" rather than "person". Of course, any descriptions of what is called "God" implies limitations and represents the "reifying" of what is undefinable and unlimited. The All is One, there is only the All. The Oneness of the All is Its only attribute.

[WisdomFromAshes]

That is one of the best explorations on the subject I've ever seen. Been studying it for 40 some years and never seen some of these points. Bottom line early Christians didn't believe in a trinity and later Christians are still trying to hold it together.

[Smitty]

When I did my first study of the Trinity, I found an author, who escapes me now, who said something like, " No Christian Theologian like the Trinity. It is just the best way we have of explaining all the things the Bible says about the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That kind of sums it up for me. It should be no surprise that men might be able to apprehend God, but not to fully comprehend Him.

[amirkhalid]

The convoluted rationalisations presented by these Christian thinkers have me convinced that the fundamental idea of the Trinity just doesn't make sense.

[rumidude]

Must circle the wagons!
@11:52 Robert Lawrence Kuhn says: " I relish the linguistic gymnastics because they portray the mighty manuevers we humans under take to support our theological beliefs."
This episode is like a Monty Python sketch.

[stephensmith]

These men are all learned people and I'm not, but this seems to me as philosophical gymnastics on a monumental scale.

[giftlekgothoane]

Interesting that all the prophets in the Bible especially Jesus Christ(pbuh) never preached trinity so you'll ask your self where do these professors get their information because it's not the Bible.