Joscha Bach: Consciousness, Artificial Intelligence, and the Threat of AI Apocalypse

Joscha Bach is a computer scientist and artificial intelligence researcher currently working with Liquid AI. He has previously done research at Harvard, MIT, Intel, and the AI Foundation. In this episode, Joscha and Robinson discuss the nature of consciousness—both in humans and synthetic—various theories of consciousness like panpsychism, physicalism, dualism, and Roger Penrose’s, the distinction between intelligence and artificial intelligence, the next developments of ChatGPT and other LLMs, OpenAI, and whether advances in AI will spell the end of humankind.

OUTLINE
00:00 Introduction
03:33 Why are Legos Like Computer Programs?
11:17 Using Computer Science to Understand Reality
19:14 Is Reality a Simulation?
26:20 Does Roger Penrose’s Theory of Consciousness Make Sense?
35:15 Could Dualism Explain the Human Mind?
41:03 What’s Wrong with Panpsychism?
52:59 What Is Intelligence? 
58:22 What Defines the Current Wave of AI?
01:08:18 Does ChatGPT Mirror the Human Mind?
01:18:43 Will ChatGPT Become Smarter than Humans? 
01:27:58 Will ChatGPT Philosophize Better than Philosophers?
01:39:16 Shoulder We Fear AI?
01:49:47 What’s More Dangerous: The Internet or AI?
01:54:20 Could AI Take Over the Planet? 
01:59:22 Will AI Make Human Artists Obsolete?
02:11:28 Could AI Solve Climate Change?

Robinson Erhardt researches symbolic logic and the foundations of mathematics at Stanford University. Join him in conversations with philosophers, scientists, and everyone in-between.

[kirktown]

Ah, still just about my favorite human being. Of ~all~ the thinkers I've gravitated toward, Bach seems the most bullshit free. It's hard not to sound like an irrational fanboy saying this stuff, but, genuinely, after some ~33 years, Bach was the first person EVER to completely pass my bullshit sniffer, beating the likes of Sagan, Aquinas, Turing., etc.
He's made the rounds over the last several years and I'm happy to hear he's still not selling anything, and still hasn't sold out or jumped the shark with his ideas. Completely reasonable, open-minded -- Bach is King Nerd.

And his youth in east germany gives him a perspective that I, as someone born in the USSR, too rarely see in public speakers. Bach knows wtf is up.

[henriquechappuis]

Bach first popped up in my online journey a few years ago, and I haven’t been able to stop consuming his content since. 
He’s opened so many exciting rabbit holes in my mind that I'll be grateful for it for a lifetime

[jimjarmusch]

Sometimes Joscha Bach goes over my head. I think I grasped pretty much everything in this conversation though. What a clear rational thinker.

[mystryfine]

Joscha Bach would make a good Bond villain

[pedro_marques]

joscha bach is a heritage of humankind

[JesuSoup]

Everything Joscha Bach says always sounds right to me and I agree with aesthetically, which probably isnt a good thing. It somewhat bothers me as much as it makes me feel good. Still love listening to anything he has to say really.

[mystryfine]

we need a breakthrough in human consciousness

[blingpup]

Joscha Bach is the best!!!! Wonderful Guest!…try to get Sara Walker please, she is an original thinker like Joscha. They would be your most interesting guests because how far ahead they are. She has a book coming out this month as well.

[gangstaboy]

The joke about Noam Chomsky and mysticism is so funny lol.

And to you who's now thinking "But he said the exact same joke in this other interview I heard", calm down and remember that not everyone listens to every single interview that Joscha is giving!

[RedBikelane]

my brain is actually in recovery mode from these high level ideas 😂

[dinulichithma]

Having access to the brilliant ideas of geniuses like him at your fingertips is truly inspiring. It's a shame that I'll never have the opportunity to meet him in person.

[greenmountainfarms]

Robinson, another home run! Wow! Keep'em coming!

[awsmaney]

18:49 "Of course the graphics are going to suck on the Turing machine" lol

[cabanford]

One of the most interesting minds on the Intertubes. Thanks 👍

[SKGFindings]

Before we work on artificial intelligence why don’t we do something about natural stupidity?

[Corteum]

You cant work out consciousness with your mind or your mouth.

[FreakyStyleytobby]

1:45:50
The "big hole" is there, but not in Yudkowsky's reasoning, but in Bach's. "Is it inevitable that it is going to be agentic." Yes, Joscha, it is. I recommend you looking at Twitter feed and seeing how every single company and AI enthusiast is doing their best to create "agents". So in a nutshell: you take an LLM - having more and more detailed model of the world, you put it in a for loop with some prompt (thus giving it a goal, "a purpose"), and you just got an agent. It takes waiting a couple of months till the LLMs have a model more precise than ours and here we become irrelevant.
"These are open questions. And are very speculative". They are not open. The models are becoming agentic at this precise moment in time.
Then Bach goes on by proposing that the most intelligent thing on Earth is Gaia. Seriously dude? The civilisation is at stake and you continue on playing with these absurd philosophical dilemmas?

[sconover]

Somewhere in the multiverse, there is a version of me who can keep stride with Joscha Bach's ravenous intellect, curiousity, and dogged pursuit of unadulterated reality. But finding myself in this particular world, I can only pray and listen with playback set at a quarter-speed. I recommend listening in such a fashion, while running a half-marathon. Robinson, you remain the GOAT of bringing the biggest ideas of our boldest thinkers to the curious masses.

[montfort]

Bach has previously given his reinterpretation of Genesis. Now, listening to the last section of this talk, I wish he would give some of that same attention to Revelation. I would be interested.

[MistrzLosos]

wake up babe, new joscha just dropped