Don't use Fishbone diagram for Root Cause Analysis

#Fishbone, or #Ishikawa, diagrams are a great tool for broadening the scope of possible causes - direct first level cause that it is. But don't use it to dive deeper and search for the root causes.
To keep your problem solving overview clear for both yourself and your stakeholders, I suggest you use this fishbone cause-and-effect diagram to explore and expand, then follow up with a 5 why analysis of a small number of selected causes.
#problemsolving

[myanis]

100% agreed....even many trainers & consultants are wrong..many use the fishbone with branches - using it to find root causes...fishbone is best used ONLY for PRIMARY 1st LEVEL CAUSES ...then to find root causes use use Tree Diagram which has ALL levels of causes from primary all the way to root causes

[mohamedborhami]

Yes, i agree with you, i try the fish bone to recognise thr root cause, you may lost, so its reasonable to start with as brainstorming then go to 5 why, thanks for such effort

[gravity-arbor]

Agreed. It’s a *high-level* way of dissecting a problem.

[BrentHarcey]

Couldn't agree more. Teams inevitably get lost or distracted within 5-10 minutes. I have found it easier to create a table of the 6 categories of an Ishikawa diagram and brainstorm directly to the table (or 6 lists). Sometimes we will rank items within a category to determine which causes advance to further analysis.

[shaelynnwatt]

This is really interesting. I'm glad I came across this video early in my exploration of root cause analysis and fishbone diagrams--I haven't seen the idea of putting untested hypotheses on the fishbone and then following up with them to determine if they get a root-cause analysis. Thanks for this nuance!

[JasonBolte]

I like this in that it will help you identify what you need to solve for, or what to do a 5 why on. Is it Man, Method, Machine, Material... thanks for posting!

[eddy]

I agree with you, excelent explanation.

[solomonquartey]

I agree with you. I was thinking so before I watched your video on Youtube
I think the 5 why process is what helps to identify the root cause of a problem; fishbone diagram is a visual representation of the 5 why process .

[audiomemento]

Never thought about it from this angle. thank you!

[oladipupoodutayo]

Makes whole lots of sense. I wish college professors can teach the topic this way.

[dmenshikov]

Hi! I did for a years such sort of analyses even without knowing theirs names) But I can definitely agree that Fishbone is a layer-1 concept and 5Whys is a layer-2.

[dmenshikov]

My 5 cents. It's also possible to split the Fishbone diagram and move one or few categories to a separate Fishbone diagram. It will reduce the height of the graph and make it more usable and not so messy.

[taysengteedjitch]

Make perfect sense. Thanks for sharing 👍

[Mon-bwfv]

Love this. Thanks to you I've learnt something new today!

[teyew]

Today there are software that can allow 5 whys to be performed directly within fish bone diagram without concern with crowding the diagram. While the subsequent causes are being captured into the branches of each primary cause, the diagram will be auto adjusted and spacing. The brainstorming proces no longer restricted by the limitation of the size of the paper. The software basically provides a big canvas that allow fish bone diagram to expand in any of the branches. Additionally the software allows easy rearrangement of causes within own branch to arrive at logical flow of the analysis. Finally one can copy each verified root cause with all its effects along that branch away from the fish bone diagram onto a separate sheet (hard or soft) in 5 why root cause analysis which is presented in tabulated form.

[liljohnyboy]

I am coming late to this party, but yes I agree as well. My team does this every time we do a Root Cause Corrective Action.

[ollie]

I agree with you, starting with Ishikawa to have an overview of the potential causes and deepvdive after with 5ws, givess us holistic view, so we don't mess up potential causes. Also it will be good before 5ws to make a poll with the team to stratify RC's.

Could you please consider to do a video a about the leadership in problem solving, ¿?

Greetings from Mexico.

[caiusdavid]

Agreed, It was well explained. Thank you

[itorres]

Good suggestion. it will also make it easier to document using a word processor rather than having to get and maybe learn a diagramming tool.

[nahiankawsersifat]

Fishbone Diagram is used for initial brainstorming. And 5 why tool is used for root cause analysis.