STOP Trying So Hard to Groove on Drums - Do This Instead

Something occurred to me the other day as I watched a Thomas Pridgen video:

Grooving isn't about trying hard.

In the video, Thomas plays opposite a less experienced drummer. The other drummer's trying *super* hard to groove, but it's obvious that Thomas' pocket is better.

But Thomas wasn't "trying" at all.

The whole thing reminded me of all the "jazz face" that happened at my old college after a visit from Marcus Baylor. We all furled our brows and tried to play "serious groove" for months after hearing Marcus.

Did it help? Not at all. Unless our goal was to look, as Ralph Lalama used to say... Never mind. I'm not going to finish that sentence.

It just so happened I was also listening to some Sam Harris podcasts this week on Dzogchen meditation - particular his interview with Mingyur Rinpoche.

Dzogchen teaches that the fact that there isn't a duality between thoughts and the thinker - the "locus behind the eyes" as Sam calls it - is an insight available at a moment's notice to someone ready to receive it.

Sam gives the analogy of realizing one wall of a restaurant is mirrors. Your perception changes, and you can't "not see it" after that.

Mingyur's father, Tulku Urgyen, showed Sam "the pointing out exercise", analogous to telling someone the walls are mirrors.

I love how I don't need to retain people's attention in this written description, so I can make is as long as I want :P

Anyway, what if "trying hard" to groove misses the point?

What if Thomas and Marcus don't have better pocket because they're "trying harder", but because they *see more clearly*?

Well, then we'd probably approach the whole enterprise totally differently.

This lesson suggests one way.

[m_r__r_o_b_o_t]

I’m a guitarist, and I’ve learned so much about improving as a musician watching your channel. Thank you for the great content.

[spinnis]

It's kind of like drawing. A lot of people who are bad at it are bad not because they don't draw things the way they actually see them. They draw them as they THINK they see them or how they conceptualize them, which often ends up looking like a symbol for the thing more than an accurate representation of the thing. People have to learn to more accurately perceive their own perception. It's similar to timing in drumming. People hear themselves in the way they conceptualize what they are playing, when they should hear how they are actually playing it. This is not to say people have to draw accurate representations of things, or that they have to have a straight beat, but you have to learn the rules before you break them.

[hillie]

Insight #0: record yourself. And be amazed at how shitty you really play. It's usually a great reminder for me. :-)

[Phoenix]

Ima try this with my violin/cello chop

[ivanpetrov]

In my opinion, a very important thing for a drummer is the ability to dance. Being a dancer you сan to hear and feel all things what your body expects from rhythm and music while moving. This experience can be used during the creation of grooves. For example, Gene Krupa and Steve Gadd was a tap dancer

[mathuwhycough]

a thousand percent. I never imagined someone could so perfectly articulate the ‘sub-urban’ feel AND have a solution! Amazingly well done!

[cobuspotgieter]

This is really, really good man. I especially loved the inclusion of meditation. Awesome video!

[mikesharpsongs]

Guitar player here, typically solo shows. When I play with anyone I am immediately aware of my tendency to rush and be way too busy. This video is tremendous in terms of further defining the problem and offering a way through. Now I will try to work through the transposition between instruments, but thanks so much for all of the wonderful insight!

[drunkmonk]

you had at me at meditation. i ve played guitar 23 yrs and drums for 1. thanks for not dumbing down your video like i did this comment.

[Aleph_Null_Audio]

Makes me think of my old instructor's mantra of "subdivide or die!" You need to feel sixteenths to play accurate eighths. Just lining up on the quarter not is not enough. The off-beat metronome is a good way to internalize those subdivisions.

[harrycrab]

I signed up for the 80-20 course several years ago and I continually come back to these exercises and grooves, the various metronome exercises and recordings, and I really believe it’s a great system to get your playing consistently grooving in the shortest amount of time. Beware, it’s a painful process. Be prepared for metronome at 60 bpm. Even after ‘completing’ the course (you never complete concepts), I use Nate’s course (or selected exercises) as a warm up to get in touch with micro-time and really lock it in. An hour or two of Nate’s exercises and I am locked in for everything else I’m working on. Highly recommended!
P.S. I have no affiliation with Nate or 80-20; I paid my money and I’m a satisfied customer.

[JeanOffTheLeash]

I've been drumming for nearly 20 years. Early on, I progressed quickly with lessons and was able to become a good enough drummer for playing in bands and jamming. I was at this plateau for a long while until I finally got a nice mic setup and I recorded each of my practice sessions. What I quickly realized after listening back is that I sounded A LOT worse than I ever realized. The distance between what you hear while playing and what someone else would hear can be a chasm as large as the Pacific Ocean. Everyone has seen that confident drummer at Guitar Center who's playing eardrum-splittingly bad grooves without a care in the world. So I agree with everything in this video. You've got to attack your weaknesses head on and not be insecure about it. The best way to do that is record yourself and listen back. I agree it's important to play with a metronome at first, but I consider them training wheels. Eventually you have to figure out a way to leave it behind and find the groove yourself. And if you know what good music sounds like, you should know what a good groove sounds like. Listen to isolated tracks of your favorite drummers and try to replicate them. Bonham's more simplistic grooves are a great place to start, such as Kashmir. After dedicating a few weeks to this, you'll eventually become a better active listener as you play and you'll have a more accurate idea of what your groove sounds like in the moment.

[midnitesongs]

this video won’t stop blowing my mind - I’ll be digesting this for most of 2020
Thanks man !

[DudeThatDrums]

I think your insights and personal experiences (the not "dumbed down" version you were hinting towards) are essential in making these lessons useful and eye-opening. Please keep them in there and take the appropriate amount of time to explain! Thanks heaps.

[codenamecatatonic]

Dude, when you set the beat ahead your playing. That was nuts. this was a great lesson.

[WrvrUgoThrUR]

I could listen to this dude play on THAT kit for days. All the pieces sound like they belong together. Notice how he’s not even playing loud.

[Remcyclist]

This video is phenomenal and the first I have seen that talks about feel and placement. I have told 3 of my drum teachers someone needs to make videos like this .”Everything in between the click “

[ScottGarrettDrums]

How to develop groove, by Steve Ferrone: "Ya' just gotta f---in' do it, mate." :D

How to actually develop groove and pocket.
1) Relax.
2) Play with a consistent placement on the click. You can be "on" the click while still not sounding consistent. If you're playing right on-top of the click, you shouldn't be able to hear it at all. This is known as "burying the click."
3) Learn how to play with your placement to create an intentional push / pull while playing to a click (e.g. going into or out of a chorus).
4) Try Bonham's method, hats on top of the beat, kick just in front, and snare just behind. That's your quintessential pocket, called so because it creates a wide space between the kick and snare, allowing more room for other instruments to fit in there... like a hand into a cozy pocket.
5) Play along to Sarah McLachlan's "Trainwreck" and bury the groove under your playing. (It doesn't matter if you like the song or not, you're learning how to groove.)
6) After dedicated and focused practice your increased confidence level shines through your playing as a strong, solid, and consistent groove with a deep pocket.

[DavidDiMuzio]

I'm also a guitarist ...but I'm gonna practice this. Thanks!

[nycdrummer]

Just another video to add to why I like this channel. Going on a bit of a kick tonight, and just re-watched a few older vids that I felt the need to revisit. Noticed this dude tends to get hated on a bit for speaking as much as, if not more than drumming. I, personally, thoroughly enjoy it. It's a wealth of information and musicality, and I find those aspects to be just as important as what I can actually play on the instrument. Great vid as usual, Nate.