The Ancient Greek Atheists ('Are there gods above? No, there are not?')

This is a lecture about a chapter of my world history book called:
"In Search of the Sublime - A world history of humanity's relentless pursuit of scientific truth, moral excellence, and enlightenment."
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Kind regards,
Stephan P. Dinkgreve
MSc Theoretical Physics
Amsterdam

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Main source for this chapter:
Battling the Gods: Atheism in the Ancient World
Book by Tim Whitmarsh

[usergiodmsilvaPT]

Finally some proper video addressing primary sources on this wonderful topic! Instantly subscribed.

[dennisroy]

I have been fascinated by Greek mythology for most of my life -- but thank you, Stephan, for opening my eyes to the equally fascinating story of men battling *against* the belief in gods. I am inspired to look to the sources of Greek poetry and philosophy that you have mentioned. I also need to trace the source and development of this Greek idea of *atoms* which seems to be a milestone in civilized culture.

[tinkeringtim]

Wow, the level of projection here is stunningly unhinged!

[earthjustice]

Cicero wrote a book called "On the Nature of the Gods" which contains some pretty strong skepticism about the existence of Gods, it may well have been taken from Theodorus's book. Cicero's book is well worth reading for its excellent sketch of how ancient peoples justified the existence of the gods. Hint: they used much the same kind of arguments that Christians later used to justify God's existence. Also Cicero is the only other author besides Plato, that I know of, who was good at writing dialogues.

[oker]

You mention some of the major quotes - like Zenophanes. I'm forgetting(already) the Greek who said "if there were Gods, then they must not care." But, you point it out.

I can think of some more. Morris Kline has a great Greek poet quote at the beginning of his "Mathematics: the Loss of Certainty." I"d have to dig the book out. But, you miss one major Greek quote about the Gods.

In "the Sacred Disease", Hippocrates of Kos(of Hippocratic Oath fame) explicitly states that the gods are an algebraic X for our ignorance, and that god's work in mysterious ways. Well, Hippocrates
states that if, by some miracle, the patient gets better, they say their gods are true, but, if the patient dies, then "the gods work in mysterious ways."


It also shows the relation between magic and the gods. Sir James Frazer suggests that before there were gods, there was a period of magic. I find that Robert Graves "The Greek Myths" proves "The Golden Bough." I've also found proof of magic in the Old Testament. They were trying to erase the magic past with their new god.

Anyways, Hippocrates "The Sacred Disease" proves everything you need to know about the Gods.

[TheTrumanZoo]

very interesting how we today have the same exact discussions still :D we call "prophesy" now time travel, we call "magic" now technology....

[kaloarepo]

There was an Australian philosopher who died several decades ago who argued that human beings were evolving towards the status of gods because of natural evolutionary processes and also through technological advancements -brain implants and things like that. I think his book was called "The death of forever." or a similar title.

[midtskogen]

Whether gods existed or not was not much debated in antiquity, since pretty much everybody believed they existed (and denying it would be pretty radical). The debates were more about whether they intervened with mortals.

"Faith is all that remains once you replace evidence with emotion."

Bertrand Russell 💙

[NotMyGumDropButtons.]

I wonder if the changing Greek thought about their gods happened near the time that the ancient Israelites stop thinking about their God having a body and walking in the cool of a garden in the morning, of course

[jamesbra]

Gods were manifestations of known expressions in civilisation but in pondering a God as everything that you exist in is a deep question

[martin]

Might be better to call them freethinkers than atheists per se.

[BrianFoster-jifp]

Socrates opted for hemlock over exile.

[fiktivhistoriker]

I remember reading Diodorus who thought, that life evolved from mud that was baked in the sun. You could obviously see it in egypt after the nileflood. 😂

[michaelaristidou]

Clearly the roots of atheism were in ancient Greece. 🇬🇷🤘

[LuisAldamiz]

All atoms are gods!

It makes sense, especially as they do have basic conscience in their interactions (although I'm rather thinking of fundamental particles than what we now call atoms).

[jacktbugx]

That was the Genesis of God's turning religion
But still Mythological

[ALavin-enkr]

The ancient Greeks used Gods to describe forces. Today mundane literal terms are used for forces. Like Native Americans they also believed in a supreme force: a great spirit.

[whocareswhoami]

Hindu Brahman is similar to Some Greek Philosophy.

[paulgibbons]

Belief in god and belief in theology is not the same thing.
An Athiest is simply a person who does not live by a prescribed theology.
In reality. Seeing is believing.
Even for those without theology. All are agnostic.
In ancient Greece, theology was theatre.