Prokhorovka: Chances of a German Breakthrough?

Dr. Roman Töppel addresses the question if the Germans had the chance of an operational breakthrough after the Battle of Prokhorovka, which was part of the Battle of Kursk (Operation Zitadelle).

"I've heard arguments that there was a reasonable chance for an operational breakthrough after prokhorovka, given the damage to Rotmistrov's tank army and Rodimtsev's corps in the actions surrounding Prokhorovka. What is Dr. Toppel's opinion regarding German operational potentials in this situation, and what potential ramifications do you think this might have had? From my understanding the present orthodox American historiography is that the Germans had little to no chance of meaningful success, however I found myself unable to meaningfully comment when it was challenged. I'd love to see your commentary!"

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» SOURCES «

Töppel, Roman: Kursk 1943. The Greatest Battle of the Second World War. Helion: Warwick, UK: 2018.

Glantz, David M. (ed.) ; Orenstein, Harold S. (ed.): The Battle for Kursk 1943. The Soviet General Staff Study. Frank Cass: Portland, OR, USA: 1999 (1990).

Hartmann, Christian: Wehrmacht im Ostkrieg. Front und militärisches Hinterland 1941/42. De Gruyter Oldenbourg: 2010.

Sharp, Charles C.: The Soviet Order of Battle. World War II. An Organizational History of the Major Combat Units of the Soviet Army. Volume II: “School of Battle”. The Tank Corps and Tank Brigades January 1942 to 1945, George F. Nafziger: 1995.

Glantz, David M.; House, Jonathan M.: The Battle of Kursk. University of Kansas Press: United States, 1999.

Zamulin, Valeriy: The Battle of Kursk. Controversial and neglected Aspects. Helion & Company: England, 2017.

Zetterling, Niklas; Frankson, Anders: KURSK 1943 – A Statistical Analysis

Glantz, David M.: Colossus Reborn. The Red Army at War, 1941-1943. University Kansas Press: Kansas, US, 2005

[MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

Update from Roman Töppel (I post since there seems to be some issues with the comments, see his original comment below)
P.S. (18 December 2021): The article is now available
in German:

and in English:

Stay safe and Merry Christmas!
Roman

[Jon.A.Scholt]

You know you're a panzer nerd when you laugh about Manstein's handwriting in his war diary! This is why I love this channel!

[AlexanderSeven]

I've read in some book that Operation Citadel was like an attempt by a well-trained man to smash a brick wall with his forehead by running into it, and behind that wall there was a man with an axe waiting for him anyway.

[TheLeonhamm]

I am sure that I am not the only one who sits watching these conversations totally amazed and engrossed. A big thanks to both of you. Hopefully, YouTube will begin to wake up to the fact that this is what makes YT worthwhile - not talking heads, but intelligent people sharing what they have discovered (and how to check the data independently).

[johnnypopulus]

MHV content is always educational but I do not joke when I say: When Dr. Töppel is w/ MHV I break out the paper & take notes. All this knowledge is just oustanding, thanks so much MHV & Dr. Töppel.

[MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized]

Note that Dr. Roman Töppel did not receive the questions before my visit, so he had no time to prepare.
Dr. Roman Töppel's book on the Battle of Kursk is available in English, German, French and a few other languages. Check it out on amazon.

[ranhat]

OUTSTANDING. And we hear live what we read about losses in Dr. Toppel's paper. The fact of great reserves, lines and oustanding preparations, is new and valuable infor.

[ihcfn]

In short, you can't have a pincer movement with only one pincer.

[PaulEX]

And not to mention the Soviet offensive at the Orel Salient, named Operation Kutuzov, right in the, almost, unprotected, back of the Northern German pincer . Model only just succeeded in withdrawing his troops from the salient, so saving them from complete destruction. So there is no question about a possible German breakthrough from the twelfth of July 1943 at Kursk. (Source; ‘ Kursk, the German view’ Steven H. Newton)

[jeremy]

I'm rocking my PzKpfw VI Ausf. E shirt today. I thought at first i'd eventually get tired of explaining to everybody what it means, but i really don't. Spreading my love of history never gets old

[riekopo]

You guys need to review the Decisive Campaigns game series.

[anderskorsback]

Even if both pincers would have succeeded in breaking through and encircling the salient, would that even have meant victory? The Red Army did, after all, have mechanized armies ready to attack to the North and the South of the salient, and attack they did once Citadel was called off, or (iirc) in the case of the North, even before it was called off. If the German pincer arms had pushed on and even succeeded in breaking through, wouldn't they just have dug themselves a deeper hole and gotten encircled and cut off themselves?

[mydixienormus]

Germany ran out of oil in late 1941, Barbarossa was supposed to drive towards the oil in Caucasus as hitler wanted but his generals wanted to fight wasteful encirclement battles on way to moscow and lenigrad, they had no idea what war takes on economic scale, this is why hitler always said his generals betrayed him, after october 1941 the Germans lost the war due to oil shortages not the snow, so any chance of germans doing anything after that was hopeless

[spqr]

The drastic difference between soviet and german casualties in tanks maybe partly explained, that battlefield was held by germans, and after a battle they towed their damaged tanks and blowed damaged soviet tanks. So lightly damaged german tanks were restored, and soviet tanks were completely destroyed.

[AlextheKaijuFan]

Get ready for Sabaton fans. Oh, I'm one of them.

*Fields of Prokhorovka, where the heat of battle burned!*
*Suffered heavy losses, the tide of war was turned!*

[LukoHevia]

Man, i love your videos with Dr. Toppel. You should make some sort of mega-documentary on the Battle of Kursk with maps, testimonies, day by day developements and else... You may say i'm a dreamer, but i'm sure i'm not the only one ☺

[SJam]

Thanks for your insight, Dr. Toppel. They were brave men biting off more than they could chew.

[FurryCruz]

Another great interview that shows fact and professionalism) Like B says in video, all the details covered.

[Anlushac]

According to a book I have on the Soviet Order Of Battle for Prokhorovka the 5th Guards tank army was behind the lines in reserve and when the SS units started making headway Romistrov was ordered to move up and reinforce Prokorovka as fast as possible. The Soviets did a forced road march to their area and arrived less than 24 hours before the battle. Romitstrov had already decided that the Soviets would have to close to point blank range as soon as possible to minimize German high velocity guns and to make it harder for Germans to support their tanks.

The Soviets had deployed forward observers to watch the German lines and early in morning of the battle (5am? ) the Soviets observers reported lots of plumes of smoke as the Germans were starting their tanks to prepare for the days offensive. The Germans were just starting to move forward when Romstrov gave the order "Stahl!, Stahl!, Stahl!" and I think it was purple flares were launched and suddenly a almost endless wave of t-34's and T-70M's rushed over the hill. Most of the Germans tanks were overloaded with extra ammo in expectation of the days fighting which is part of the reason the Germans were able to inflict such heavy casulties.

General Hausser did not believe the reports of so many Soviet vehicles knocked out and went to inspect the scene for himself and was stunned at so many tanks knocked out. IIRC the Soviets suffered 653 tanks knocked out, mostly T-34/76's and T-70M's, the Germans suffered 34 tanks knocked out, mostly PzIII's and IV's. What made a difference in the battle was that in two days The 5th Guards tank Army was back to strength and the Germans struggled to replace their losses. Keep in mind that the Soviets did not control the battlefield after so were not able to recover the tanks knocked out that day. In less than a week Germans were forced to begin retreating and Soviets were probably able to recover a number of those vehicles.

Despite years of propaganda Tigers were not part of this battle and were to the left holding a bridgehead over Psel river from Soviet counter attacks. The two Panther battalions operational were not involved either as both were even farther to the left assigned to Panzergrenadier Division Grossdeutchland.

[larshansen]

Great video, interesting and fun to watch. I am now curious about what Mansteins handwriting looks like!