Therapist Reacts to Roe vs. Wade

Therapist Reacts to Roe vs. Wade //

Pro-choice versus pro-life, Roe vs Wade, pro choice vs pro life; there are angry conversations happening on both sides. Understandably, this is a moral issue. Watch this video to hear how therapist reacts on how to have healthy conversations when emotions run high.

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#prolife #prochoice #roevwade #roevswade #mendedlight #jonathandecker

[MendedLight]

RE: YOUR FEEDBACK AND MY (JONATHAN'S) POSITION

Thank you all who have watched and especially thank you all who have commented. I have had my understanding and perspective broadened by your insights and experiences. I understand that so many of you are grieving and hurting right now. You're absolutely right that this doesn't affect me directly. I can't possibly comprehend by experience what you're feeling, what your fears are, and what your pain is. I have compassion for people that I care for who are affected by this. What understanding that I do have comes from listening with an open mind and an open heart.

While many of you appreciated the video about listening to those with other perspectives, others found it misguided and tone-deaf. I appreciate that those in the latter camp have generally given me the benefit of the doubt that my heart was in the right place, even if they disagree with my approach. Thank you for being respectful in your feedback and correction; I imagine that's not easy when you're hurting and angry overall.

I did not reveal my personal position on this subject yesterday because A) I don't know that my voice as a male is especially relevant and B) my experience is that, with such heated topics as this, once you reveal your position, many who disagree with that position stop listening, which is the very behavior the video was discouraging. This is why my focus was on how we have the conversation; I'm a relationship therapist and I was trying to stay in my lane.

I will certainly never tell people not to be angry, not to raise their voices, not to stand their ground. As I stated in the video, in some cases listening to others causes a paradigm shift in us where we pivot, compromise, and find middle ground; in other cases there is no compromise, but we learn to stand our ground in a different way.

I feel compelled to share my views today, however, as an example of why I believe the principles in the video will work, if not in every case, than certainly in many cases. I'd like to tell you about my evolution on this subject. In doing so, I'm speaking as Jonathan, just for myself, not for Mended Light, because I'd never presume to speak for an entire group of people without their consent. I'm not trying to persuade you to see things my way. Just sharing my journey in the hopes that it will be helpful

In my case, I was raised in a "pro-life" family and a "pro-life" faith. While some in this camp are focused more on principle than practical execution, in our case I'm glad to say that my parents walked the walk. They cared about not just birth, but life itself and people. We dedicated ourselves to helping single parents, adopted children, the poor, and the needy with our time, with our money, and with our energy in many very real ground-level ways.

Perhaps due to that upbringing, I still care about that "clump of cells." But I also care about bodily autonomy. I care about protecting women and children from a list of dangers, abuses, and destitution too long to list here. I care about freedom. I've always cared about these things. They're part of the values I was raised with. As I've listened to the stories of many women with a mind open to change, as I've sat with their experiences with a heart open to being touched, I've come to see more clearly how these values that I was raised with also apply to this situation.

Over time I've shifted my position to "pro-choice." Even though I'm no fan of abortion itself, I believe that free access to contraceptives and improved sex education will reduce abortion rates more than legislation which, in my view, endangers and disempowers women. That's my journey. Yours is your own. I won't dictate to you what to think and believe, and I refuse to judge those who see it differently than I do.

So why share my journey? Why make yesterday's video? Because, on the ground level, in our interactions with loved ones with divergent views, I believe that's how hearts and minds are changed. It's how mine were changed. Had anyone labeled me a misogynist bigot I'd never had listened to a word they said after that.

Abraham Lincoln said something so inspired. It's in the language of the time, so he says "man" and "men" when today we'd be more inclusive and say "person" or "people." Please look past that to the principle:

"When the conduct of men is designed to be influenced, persuasion, kind, unassuming persuasion, should ever be adopted. It is an old and a true maxim, that a "drop of honey catches more flies than a gallon of gall." So with men. If you would win a man to your cause, first convince him that you are his sincere friend. Therein is a drop of honey that catches his heart, which, say what he will, is the great highroad to his reason, and which, when once gained, you will find but little trouble in convincing his judgment of the justice of your cause, if indeed that cause really be a just one. On the contrary, assume to dictate to his judgment, or to command his action, or to mark him as one to be shunned and despised, and he will retreat within himself, close all the avenues to his head and his heart; and though your cause be naked truth itself, transformed to the heaviest lance, harder than steel, and sharper than steel can be made, and though you throw it with more than Herculean force and precision, you shall be no more be able to pierce him, than to penetrate the hard shell of a tortoise with a rye straw."

Maybe Abe and I are wrong. But I thought it was worth sharing for your consideration.

My love to you all.

Jonathan

[Theflynn]

A good friend of mine had a placental abruption while pregnant with her first child. Abortion literally saved her life, and though she was upset (it was a wanted pregnancy), she lived to mourn and have two children. Under the new laws, that abortion wouldn’t happen; countries with similar bans have already seen cases like this. I honestly don’t like that abortion is a necessary reality, but not wanting something doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be. And ultimately this needs to remain a healthcare issue. This should have never been political in the first place.

[thrillergirl]

I am currently pregnant and let me say that if it had not been my choice, if I had found myself in this situation and forced by society to go through with it, I would be so angry. Having to have to go through all these bodily changes and physical discomfort and constant aches... The anger, the resentment... I don't like to think what kind of person that would turn me into. Not a suitable mindset to welcome a child into the world and every child deserves to be loved and feel wanted above all.

[Tilly]

It makes me so crazy that people say 'Well, give the baby up for adoption...'. It's not as emotionally simple as that, for the mother or the baby. I say this as a child who *was* given up by their mother, and grew up in an abusive family. That rejection never really goes away. My mother became an alcoholic and had lasting mental health problems from having given up her baby. You don't just pop out a baby, hand it over and walk happily away. It's so much more complex than that.

[DomesticBliss-ish]

As someone who would have died without a D&C at 14 weeks for my baby who had died about a week earlier and my body was not willing to pass. I still ended up going septic and being put in the hospital for a week of heavy medication. when I was 7 weeks pregnant with my son they found a lump in my breast and the belief was that i should terminate so i can get cancer treatments. I chose to keep my baby and had the growth removed (thankfully that was as far as the cancer got), when my son was 5 months along in the pregnancy the docs tried to talk me into an abortion because my son 'wasn't developing right' again I chose to give him the best life i could. (he is now a 17 year old young man who i am immensely proud of him and how he deals with his multitude of medical issues) I am pro-choice., as I had one to save my life and refused two that were recommend I am grateful at having the option to make those calls for myself and my body. All too often I hear the response when i say that I am pro-choice that i MUST hate children and think all should be killed, when that cant be farther from the truth, I love children but without being able to make choices for myself and my body I would not be able to be here right now to hug my son and watch him graduate, grow into the man that i know he can be because neither of us would be here today.

[AlexandraUtschig]

I get that there's nuance in every situation, but one side is letting people have choice over their bodily autonomy and the other is forcing unwanted pregnancy on people. The pro-choice side isn't forcing abortion on people, it's saying stay out of each other's personal business.

[Hellion]

"Most people I know who are pro-life.... most of them are willing to make concessions"

But the law isn't! Texas has a trigger law. We have a 30 day count down to all abortions for any reason being illegal. Even the singular exception of "life of the mother" is so badly worded, no doctor will save her! Period!

[jennifers]

The compromise WAS the choice. As someone religiously devout you can choose how to live to your life. Consider the Amish for example, technology and modern society is all around them and they choose to live instead by their own principles. Yet we would not condone the Amish going out and destroying everything in our society they don't agree with. By this ruling they are in fact placing the tenets of their faith above the faiths or lack thereof of everyone else. Not every faith believes as Christianity does but this does not matter to those that have pushed this through. This is about so much more than abortion, it is about a grab for power by one faith over everyone else on so called moralistic grounds precisely because they do not and will not allow for any other choice or beliefs than theirs. This one is the easy one to try to win, but it will be no means be the last thing they will try to take. Your right to your own beliefs and actions is inviolate but that ends where you impose it on me and mine.

[PotatoChicken-ggju]

I've talked about this with my mom and my boyfriend, both of whom are pro-life, with exceptions for those who are victims of rape and incest and those whose life would be put in danger by the pregnancy. We agree for the most part, but this decision still scares me, and I've talked about it with both of them.

For example, we've talked about the seemingly growing number of people who don't believe in exceptions.

We've talked about how I don't feel safe to the point where I want to be on birth control not because I'm sexually active, but because I'm afraid of becoming pregnant as a result of rape.

We've talked about the other rights that could be impacted by this decision, and how we don't agree with the reasoning of the decision, regardless of whether we agree with the end product.

Both of them, but especially my boyfriend, were very open to hearing my fears regarding the situation, and I think that vulnerability is what led us to have such productive conversations about what we're going to do as individuals to respond.

[swedenshell]

The couple of things that I want to point out is Pro choice isn’t ONLY for abortion. Otherwise it would be called “pro-abortion”. Pro-choice is just as supportive of women having children if they feel that is the best course of action or if they feel they can handle the struggle. And that gets pushed aside a lot. I don’t agree that “killing life” is right, but that doesn’t mean that someone else’s life should suffer to try and do something they’re not ready to do and RECOGNIZING that you’re not ready is absolutely taking responsibility.

Another thing that I would like to say is that people when they get into these arguments are only speaking from their beliefs and opinions when that is NOT the reality for a lot of women right now. I live in Texas. I don’t have a choice as a woman. Period. There are some exceptions for medical necessity and that’s it. Rape is not an acceptable reason NOR incest. And that’s what angers me is when people say “well I think it should be allowed” good for you. But when a person supported Roe v Wade being overturned, they supported me not having that exception, because Texas law doesn’t accept it.

I am a human. I am owed rights. I have the right to carry a child to full term while ALSO having the right to say “this isn’t what will be best for me, my family, or a future child at this time.” That is my RIGHT. And I’m tired of MY RIGHTS being a debate.

Human rights are not grounds for a debate. And it’s sick that people have decided they should be.

[Angela-wfis]

As someone with a health problem that would make carrying a pregnancy to term very dangerous, I have zero tolerance for anyone that wants to force that on me.

[maxhess]

Until very recently, I 'd refused to make up my mind on abortion. Listening to the opinions of an overwhelming consensus of medical professionals on YouTube and the lived experiences of their patients in the midst of this crisis is what made me realize that reproductive freedom cannot tolerate compromise. Doctors' voices matter.

[MagpieRat]

The difficulty I have here is that there isn't a "middle ground", as you say. Any middle point consists of "you can decide what happens to your own body under SOME circumstances", and that's not a mid point, it's still control. There's really only one side which has any moving to do here. Only one side is telling the other what to do. Nobody is making the argument that pro-birth folks should be made to get abortions. It's not an equally weighted situation. I totally believe you are coming from a place of good faith and a genuine desire to make things better, but not every situation can (or should) be resolved by compromise.

[thisismaria]

I am all for listening to other people's opinions and I totally understand and respect someone not wanting to get an abortion even if they're in a sucky life situation. I don't think I'd ever get one myself. But it is not my place to tell another person what to do with their body. That is just none of my business. I will drive my friend to the doctor to get an abortion or buy them tons of diapers - either way that choice is not mine and forcing it onto somebody is the opposite of listening to their experience.

[sabrinagranger]

I have to disagree. I completely understand how, as a therapist, you view this in terms of a conversation, but political discourse is not an interpersonal relationship. This is not a marriage, where I might choose give up some of myself because my love for and commitment to my spouse is more important. I value justice and liberty more than I value interpersonal relationships with people who would oppose me in pursuing those, both on an interpersonal level and on a societal level.
A famous book title says "conflict is not abuse" but it works the other way around, too: Legal suppression is not simply a conflict. It's not a disagreement between two equal parties that can be resolved through compromise. Either the suppressed party is liberated or it isn't, and advocating for compromise is just expecting the suppressed party to accept (maybe a lesser degree of) this suppression.

[Redwine]

As right as you are about how have conversations, this issue is not that. Roe vs. Wade, is not pro-life or pro-choice. Its about human rights. There is no conversation or middle-ground on this. All human beings deserve autonomy over their bodies.

[angela]

Also for those that believe adoption is the answer. Men can refuse to allow adoption, and also refuse to be a responsible parent. Rapist can even get joint and full custody of the children their rape created in many states.

[susanna]

I disagree that this is a moral issue. I believe abortion is neither good nor bad. I doubt many people believe it is good. Abortion is neutral. It is a difficult decision that nobody wants to make. When we give a fetus more rights than any other human - the right to another person’s body without consent - there’s no nuance there. When we allow a single religious ideology (Christianity) to define when life begins and when abortion is allowed on a government level (Judaism, for example, has a completely different take on both these issues)- there’s no nuance there. Rights are actively being stripped away. There is no “meeting in the middle” or “compromise.” Justice Clarence is already looking to take away even more people’s rights - specifically, the right to be with the person one loves. There is no room for holding back here. This is dangerous, and this will lead to the horrific deaths of women.

[sunshine]

There is no compromise when I as a woman have less rights than a hunch of metal. I have great respect for people who disagree with me but doesn’t take away my choice. It is not anyone else’s business what happens to my body but me, my husband, and my doctor.

[kyleefaren]

I used to be fiercely pro-life. Here we have a clump of cells that will eventually become a whole person who will live a whole life. By aborting you rob them of their chance to experience all the wonderful things in life, their chance to have goals and dreams, to experience love and friendship. I had a happy childhood with friends and family who loved me. There was financial stability, no mental illness, no drugs or alcohol, no abuse. So of course I wanted all babies the chance to live. But now, having grown up and working in healthcare, I've seen some shit. I now believe that every child deserves good parents, but not every parent deserves a child.