What if the Phoenecians discovered America?

If the Phoenecians discovered America, the Native Americans would be a technoogical power and Elephants would wander the plains of Texas. To find out how watch this video.

[ShnoogleMan]

Another thing you missed: if exploring the gulf of Mexico, it's possible that the Phoenicians would also find the Mississippi River. In our timeline, it's an important and useful river for trade, and so the Phoenicians would likely expand up the river, creating a large inland empire in the eastern part of North America as well.

[dragoninthewest]

You forgot one other thing that the Phoenicians would bring that would massively change North America, the introduction of The Phoenician alphabet. Suddenly all these nations that break off from Phoenician Cuba all have a writing system which allows them to record their history and centralized bureaucracies. This along with the reintroduction of horses and camels to North America would allow the Mayans to form a centralized Kingdom. The Mayans will likely come to recognize during their occupation that The Phoenician alphabet was a more elegant way of recording. This would lead to adoption of the writing system. Imagine the effects it would have on their calendars and Mathematics. Not only that but the rise of a native literature and philosophers.

[GoodVideos]

Maybe the Phoenicians did discover America. Much of our history has been lost.
I'm in Cape Town, South Africa. Phoenician remains, including of a boat, were uncovered here. That is not well known.

[MrAranton]

Even if the Phoenicians could establish settlements in the Americas, they wouldn't form a trans-atlantic empire. The distance would have been just to great at the time. Sooner or later the settlements in the Americas would break off from their parent cities in Africa and the Levante and form a phoenician civilization diverging from the phoenicians in the old world - just like carthage diverged from the phoenicians in the Levante.

[slamwall]

2:44 I thought you were going to say that most of Hannibal's army was ethnically elephant.

[EternalDarkness]

This does make me wonder what would have happened if Carthage was able to escape Rome and flee to Brazil or the Carribean, making a "Neo" Carthaginian state and surviving in secret until the Europeans arrived. I can imagine that the Native Americans would be a bit ready for Europe, what with the war elephants, a trade power to unite the gulf, mercenaries used by Carthage, and not to mean Carthage inevitably telling them of the "Eastern Terror" [Rome]. Doesn't help the Euros that most of them will follow "Roman" Catholicism.

[byzantinemapper]

The Phoenicians make a colony so big, it starts to make colonies. One gets so big, IT starts to make colonies. And so on.
It is an infinite loophole of colonization.

[fasoliromanesti]

I found on the Internet that some archeologists found a ancient phoenician map which had America on it

[irgendeinerirgendwo]

ships would develop faster since they'd want to be able to get there in one run instead of stopping at the canaries and/or Brazil (antoher potential colony)

[amosnaftali]

Phoenician is Greek for Kan’aani or Canaanite and they’re still with us here under a different name

[karlmohr]

There is this huge debate about this in the UP of Michigan. There are tablets and writings of Phoenicians/Minoan design. There is also huge ancient mines for copper and tin, as our region has some of the most rich, pure, and bountiful ores in the world. The Phoenicians also loved making these ‘Ox Hide’ or ‘H’ shaped ingots if copper, which has also been found. Even some old Indian stories tell of strange men who would dig at night. There are also plants in the UP that are from Greece that shouldn’t be here.

The biggest reason for it is also how pure the copper is. Copper was very rare along the Mediterranean, except for places like Iberia and Turkey. But their copper is usually mixed with other elements, making it less pure. But, in an old galley south of Cyprus, these found a full cargo of Copper, with a purity of over 99% This was only found in Far North Asia and the UP.

Who knows if this is true. They obviously didn’t make much of an impact. But this could have been the fuel for the Bronze Age. The Phoenicians and the Minoans were known as the suppliers for copper. This may be right. Then again, it seems like a lot of work for some metal that can be found closer to home. But, you never know. Look up the Newberry Tablet to learn more.

[blahhotel]

This is uber interesting. Thank you for covering this

[anthonylivesay]

So Smallpox, chickenpox and measles would not have existed in your time line?
It would have given the indigenous peoples time to recover however the population would have been devastated.

[commander]

Now that I think about it would the Americas have to suffer the old world's plagues before the fall of the "New World Phenecian Empire." This makes me wonder if not then when would the Americas suffer the plagues, since they still exist, and this would result in a similar massive drop off in population which the survivors would further blend the surviving people's cultures various native american tribes, phenecian descendants, etc. If the drop off occurred early enough they could have rebounded by the time the next way of old world explorers (I am assuming this occurs much later since the Roman's wouldn't want to go that far and others might simply not be able to travel there till much later).

[SamuraiZero]

They found Carthaginian coins on the island of Corvo which is half way across the alantic to america.

[MajorTomFisher]

I notice that in a lot of older Whatifalthist videos, he says that more trade and travel would accelerate technological development, while in his newer videos he incorporates more of the philosophy of civilizations at the time like in his "What if the Roman Empire survived" video where he says that the Fall of Rome was ironically one of the greatest spurs of technological development in history

[annoyed]

I was playing with this concept 15 years ago. It's time I looked at it again.
One thing you did not address was the issue of disease transfer. An interesting scenario is a temporary trans-Atlantic empire last a century or so, bringing some diseases, horses, technology, etc., but that ends with the Punic wars. Lots of natives die, but the population rebounds and there is partial immunity and much more capability of resistance. Also, if Carthage had another place to go, would it have necessarily been in conflict with Rome at the same time as in our world, or perhaps a bit later?

[Phrenotopia]

This is the first time I saw this! Fascinating scenario and well-thought out! Also: It has surprisingly many conclusions in common with my video on Vikings in North America.

[briankane]

Punics very impressive race of people practically laid the foundation for modern civilization except religion maybe

[genghisdon]

as nice as it would be to think pachyderms might also return to north america (like horses or even camels), that wouldn't have happened, no more than they returned to Europe due to African or Asian ones brought for war by ancients.
Fun, provocative video none the less!