Dreadnoughts in Sci-Fi and History

Spacedock delves into the mighty dreadnoughts of fact and fiction.

THE SOJOURN - AN ORIGINAL SCI-FI AUDIO DRAMA:

BECOME A CHANNEL MEMBER:

SUPPORT SPACEDOCK:

MERCHANDISE:

Do not contact regarding network proposals.

Battlezone II Music by Carey Chico

Spacedock does not hold ownership of the copyrighted materiel (Footage, Stills etc) taken from the various works of fiction covered in this series, and uses them within the boundaries of Fair Use for the purpose of Analysis, Discussion and Review.

[The-Ink-Dragon]

*And the Dreadnoughts dread nothing at all!!!*

[brucereutens]

In a twist of irony, the Invictus wouldn't be legally considered a dreadnought in Mass Effect since none of it's many guns run the length of the ship. I could imagine the Systems Alliance building these and when the Council complains they respond "What's the problem? It's not a dreadnought.".

[The_Viscount]

As a Naval historian, my take is this:

Ship designations evolve as ships evolve. Our modern pop culture conventions on classifying ships mostly relate to early 20th century naval treaties, especially the London Naval Treaty of 1930. A frigate in 1800 was similar in role to a cruiser in the steam era. Today, the cruiser role is largely occupied by destroyers in most navies. A science fiction set hundreds of years from now, or in another galaxy with different history can have entirely different naming conventions.

[keithw.viverettesr.]

More than any other ship review channel, Spacedock's presentations are far more organized, and they take the time to get their facts straight.

[awesomehpt]

In StarCraft “battlecruiser operational” sounds better than “dreadnought operational” anyway.

[lordmon]

one of my favorite tid bits from mass effect is that Humanity limited by the council couldn't make more dreadnoughts so they just build really big carriers instead, kinda similar to real life.

[Nightwolf]

Love how parallels were drawn between Mass Effect and the Washington Navel Treaty. Fun fact, in Mass Effect humanity found a way around this by building Sci Fi's other big ship name; Super Carriers.

[mc-zyju]

The etymology of the name, fear nothing, a ship with so much armor and defense nothing can really threaten it.

[CIoudStriker]

I actually shed a tear from those last few clips because the game they are from, aptly named "Dreadnought", shut down last year and I miss it dearly.

[MrQuantumInc]

The lesson that real life dreadnoughts taught was the importance of range. The "all big guns" approach didn't improve the firepower by much, but it did improve firepower at maximum range. This was further improved by new fire control systems; since all the guns were identical you could coordinate them. Of course this principle is also way dreadnaughts become obsolete, aircraft carriers and missile ships had even longer range.
Meanwhile fiction subverts this principle by including energy shields that often can only be defeated by short range weapons. This coincidentally shifts to focus back to straight forward heavy hitters rather than flexible and sophisticated snipers or deadly yet expendable fighters. The fact that a universe with energy shields means that the biggest ships (with the biggest shield generators) tend to dominate is actually surprisingly well respected.

[Yandarval]

I like how David Weber's Honor Harrington series does it. Frigate (Tiny and obsolete) 50-60k tons. Destroyer (smallest regular combatant) 75-120k tons. Light cruiser 150-200k tons. Heavy Cruiser 230-450k tons. Battlecruiser 750-1, 000k tons. Battleship (obsolete) 2, 000-2, 500k tons. Dreadnought 6, 000k tons. Super Dreadnought 8, 500k tons. The wisdom in the 'Verse is that it takes at least three of the next class down to have a 50/50 chance against the higher one. So three Heavy Cruisers to take on a single Battlecruiser. Expect to lose all three attacks for crippling the bigger ship. One of the plots in the series was a lone regular navy heavy cruiser having to take on a battlecruiser crewed by untrained zealots. Even playing very smart. The heavy was still almost battered to destruction. It was a massive deal that ANY single heavy cruiser could win against a Battlecruiser and survive at all, whatever the circumstances.. Bloody scary but not invincible.

[jesseberg]

David Weber probably gives the best explanation for the idea of calling a suped up battleship a dreadnought in his Honor Herrington series. You start out with a fully worked up fleet layout, with everything from sublight LACs (Light Attack Craft) to Destroyers, Light Cruisers, Heavy Cruisers, Battler Cruisers, and Battleships. But then, over centuries, the Battleships keep getting bigger, while the rest of the fleet stays the same size. Destroyers and Cruisers need the acceleration advantage that a small size grants them, whereas main combatants just need to be able to keep up with other "ships of the wall", which will accelerate at the highest speed of the slowest ship in the wall of battle. So as battleships got bigger, they added classifications for Dreadnoughts and Super Dreadnoughts, based on size and acceleration.

[blitzy]

Love the Invictus from Starsector! I've even showcased how it can even hold off entire fleets of capitals and cruisers with a little help. Its one of the coolest ships in the game, a giant hulk of metal and guns.

[Scicianman]

from a purely analytical, and world building stand point, the points you made are all good, well thought out and make sense.
however, that being said, the lizard brain part of me says: "BIG SHIP GOODER."

[Its-Just-Zip]

As a long-term Eve online fan I can confirm that the dreadnought was first alongside the freighter but oftentimes it feels like the carriers were first just because they were more common, they were introduced in the update afterwards.

In a lot of ways. Eve's dreadnoughts mirror the life cycle of HMS dreadnought. She was a game changer first of the new generation of warships and then she was quickly out classed and relegated to second line duty before kind of finding a new life and then finally becoming scrap. The only part that Eve online has not finished is the scrapping. Dreadnoughts change the game they morphed from siege platform to kind of anti-capital and now they're a little bit mixed in anti-sub cap and anti-capital but they are thoroughly out classed in the largest of fights

[kommandantgalileo]

Did I hear *DREADNOUGHT?!*
*Heart Of Oak intensifies

[PRodi_]

Starsector is an absolute masterpiece!

[DecentOfAngles]

I still think one of my favourite examples of this trope is the Chariots from The Last Angel (with a notable mention to Red One herself from the same series). Chariots are massive do-everything ships (as is common with the vessels of the Compact of Species) designed to be mobile operating bases, command centres, and fleet killers simultaneously. They are one of the principal reasons the Compact has conquered as much as it has uncontested. But they are so much more than that. They are a symbol of the Compact, to see one firsthand is to see the power of the Compact, its will, its strength, and its drive. Not only that, they are also the personal ships of the Triarchs, the (last remaining) founding and ruling species of the Compact of Species. They are the highest authority within the Compact. And bestowed almost something akin to divinity by the other species within the Compact.

[GoranXII]

The first _HMS Dreadnought_ was a 40-gon warship launched in 1558. Also, the Dreadnought didn't carry _only_ big guns, it also maintained a secondary batter of 21 12-pounder (3 inch calibre) guns for use against torpedo boats and other light craft.

[CynicalPlatapus]

I just love the design of the alliance dreadnoughts in mass effect