Barry Loewer - What Is Strong Emergence?

The world works at different levels — fundamental physics, physics, chemistry, biology, psychology, sociology — with each level having its own rules and regularities. Here’s the deep question: Ultimately, can what happens at a higher level be explained entirely in terms of what happens at a lower level? If the answer is ‘No’, if complete explanatory reduction fails, then what else could be going on?



Barry Loewer is a philosopher and Chairperson of the Department of Philosophy at Rutgers University.


Closer to Truth presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.

[TheUltimateSeeds]

Strong emergence comes in the form of the mystery of how something that is capable of grasping the mental fabric of its own inner being and shaping that fabric into absolutely anything it desires (as is seen in the case of a "lucid dreamer, " for example), could have arisen (emerged) from a brain-shaped blob of unconscious matter.

[fineasfrog]

It is enough to say that Barry has not considered the mind-body problem as stated by Bernardo Kastrup and others. Also he says "the demon could predict (all emergence) if he really really had the language". This overlooks the question of: 'Well, why can't the demon just predict all forms of language from fundamental physics." This is a subtle deception in the mind mainly because somehow it deeply and mainly without recognizing it assumes that 'strong emergence' contradicts the laws of fundamental physics when it does not contradict the fundamental laws of physics.

[MartinHeine]

This vid much more interesting to watch than the Facebook one today

[fineasfrog]

You should get Bernardo Kastrup on Closer To Truth and ask him the question you posed above. As of now I have found no one who has greater clarity on this subject which is fundamentally related to 'the hard problem of mind and body'.

[altortugas]

“Strong emergence” just seems like a back-door to talking about free will. Also, I despise the phrase “over determined.” It’s categorical.

You should have particular judgement for emergence. Movement and thought can go hand in hand.

[deanrobinson]

probabilistic emergence, i.e. statistical regularity, somehow occurs on any level. I don't know of a good explanation of it other than to say its fundamental, or, it just is.

[jamesruscheinski]

Does probability statistics, and other topics discussed like thermodynamics and entropy, indicate energy in emergence?

[robertflynn]

If one start out reality with a 'theory of something ' that explains everything🥱.

So that jump is emergent from something to everything eg big bang. These are software programming options like 'branch' instructions. Could be a complex dimensional fractal software instruction for instance. Fractals are simplest programming possible.

[jamesruscheinski]

In psychology, could subjective consciousness be strong emergence, compared to weaker emergences of biology, chemistry, and physics? Could subjective conscious / mind experience, focus and direct energy?

[ptgms]

I would think one (stands) above the other in the sense that the consciousness is controlling/dominating what is normal of the physical world. And as well, the aforementioned consciousness is unusual in the universe as where the other mentioned is common place in all known existence, energy/power.

[jamesruscheinski]

Could be that free will determines causation, with physical laws describing the effects; free will being passed on from cause to effect on and on.

[jesseburstrom]

I have theory of universe being error minimizing in the sense matter and structures of matter needs to have survival mechanism so that the extra energy in universe is the result of keeping the structures intact. It makes sense in the sense it is almost obvious that having a game field of entities without conflict seems inevitable. So the emergence is in a sense creating more and more energy in the universe at low level. One way of testing the idea is to look if the amount of matter in the universe gets less over time. Whe and whole it seems not since the 'half life' of matter seems to match the age of the universe. It looks like a tautology but might be signs of the very theory all the same.

[sayamkhan]

Well let’s not forget chaos theory. Chaos math shows small minor fluctuations in initial conditions can lead to drastically different outcomes. So even if the demon had the knowledge it will run into prediction issues. And discovering that the new species called humans can discuss Shakespeare is going to
be impossible for the demon.

[baraskparas]

As you go macroscopic you lose the detail because many physics phenomena act simultaneously and as you go microscopic you lose the big picture AND the microscopic picture because we haven't been able to identify the smallest particle and unifying force in the universe. So our laws are often just descriptive between a narrow range, not real laws of the universe.

[owencampbell]

How can we solve a puzzle when a lot of pieces are missing? we can only presume out of the created structure to understand the whole.
The mentality is not accepted as a study of its own, it's being interpreted as culture, whereas, culture for me is the identification of an individual to his country of origin, the language, the taste, the products, the music, the traditons and much more, but not mentality. Mentality, is education, inherited ethnicity and traits, and the main factor for human differences.
Without the consideration of mentality in study's about consciousness and human behaviour and their emotions, I think we cannot complete the puzzle.

[rv]

Exactly, there's no sign of strong emergence in nature (as of December 2020...)

[jamesruscheinski]

Is classical physics emergent from quantum, chemistry emergent from classical physics, biology emergent from chemistry, and so on?

[naturemeets]

Yes sir, in fact we are deterministic cuz the varnas is the Karma Kanda.

[rs]

I still don’t get why water being wet is predictable. (According to this channel)