How to balance renewable grids WITHOUT energy storage!

Balancing renewable power sources on modern electricity grids is becoming one of the greatest logistical challenges of our time. Battery storage helps, but it's incredibly expensive. Now a team from Vermont University has taken inspiration from the internet to build a system that could save gigawatts of power each day.

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[DunnickFayuro]

Technicaly, this is not *without* energy storage. The storage happens, just not in the form of electricity. You store heat in the water heater, heat in the air of your house, etc. It just adds a smart distributed management system for this "storage".

[AndreVanKammen]

The PEM Coordinator would get DDOS'ed on a cold day if all these devices start screaming for power. It would also be very fulnerable to all kinds of attacks. So while this sounds great, if it get's used on a large scale and we would become denpendend on it, it wil create problems. People will install hacks for faster power, companies will try to make money by harvesting on cheap times and selling on high creating even more data load etc.

[andrasbiro]

I think this can be solved with a much simpler and much more robust way. Each device could just monitor the grid frequency. When there's too much demand the frequency drops, when there's too much production the frequency increases. No internet connection needed, no big central computer needed, can't fail, and can't be hacked.
Another possibility is to monitor the spot price of electricity. If there isn't enough, the price goes up, if there's too much the price goes down. Tesla's batteries are already doing just that. This requires internet connection, but still decentralized and reasonably secure. Plus Tesla is doing the whole thing too, with it's Virtual Power Plant software.

[realvanman]

This is a very interesting idea, somewhat similar to an idea I've had for years. Devices that control themselves based on line frequency. Put very simply, when it dips down below the base frequency of by say, 1/100 of a cycle per second, loads shut off. When it rises above they turn on. Would have it set for batteries to charge or discharge based on frequency as well.

[TheJamesRedwood]

I just keep being blissfully satisfied by this exemplary channel; regardless of the content - which ticks all my boxes in that category. In terms of production: excellent sound balancing, excellent graphics, minimal and intelligent use of stock footage, warm and engaging personality in the presentation, mandatory high definition of sound and video; but the main strength is in the most crucial facet - writing. You are a superb science writer sir, among your many talents - verbal communication being the second most important - which you clearly pay a lot of attention to. Clear, that is, to those who notice how effortless it seems. Bravissimo!

[ClearerThanMud]

I love it, but I would make one tweak: when you opt out of the managed system to force energy delivery, you should pay a higher price for that energy. And maybe it shouldn't be a binary thing -- it could be a simple dial or slider indicating how urgently you need the energy (and how much extra you are willing to pay for it).

In other words, apply economics to the problem.

[mrphilbert]

Please take a look at deep bore geothermal. Technologies like millimeter wave drilling might make drilling that deep much cheaper. That could wind up being the go to clean energy of the near future. Micro-grids would also be less vulnerable.

[juliancouch]

Very timely viewing. The UK grid now is showing the lowest ever gas consumption for generating electricity. The wind contribution is high and the sun is shining at a time when grid consumption is low.
The gas power stations are used to flex the supply but what happens if the demand from them reaches zero. It is inefficient to have a gang of industrial units reving up and down and not easy to switch them off.
Coincidently Octopus Energy is experimenting in the area of your discussion by asking consumers to reduce demand when we are short of supply and hopefully soon will ask us to take free delivery when in surplus!

[lestermarshall]

Sounds like a good idea as long as you can keep the hackers out of the system.

[youxkio]

I was actually studying this, exactly, for my masters thesis. Wow. Thank you Dave!

[simonberglund]

Here in sweden we have several start up companies developing technology for moving the energy consumption during the day but also use it to balance the load in the grid. Checkwatt, krafthem, myrspoven, minestorage just to name a few.
Smart consumption and better heat storage for Bio-CHP plants is the green balancing future!

[rogerboone]

Being a part time Vermont resident I think it's a great idea and we all need this kind of change in our systems!!

[audistik]

I’ve been thinking about installing a solar system with battery storage for several years now, partly for reducing emissions and also so I could deal with extended grid interruptions during the winter. With the Russian attack on Ukraine, the possibility of a cyber attack on the grid suddenly seems like a compelling reason to amplify my efforts to follow through on that. I think we’re all better off with a decentralized system of power generation, or maybe a combination that couldn’t be brought down by hackers, especially foreign ones.

[FrancisKoczur]

That's not packet switching, that's digitally controlled allotment.

I think an intent based event scheduler would be better for demand side management. The controller on a device sends over the network that it predicts it will consume at x Watts over t amount of time. This would add further predictability to the electric grid and wouldn't cause a failure due to loss of communication.

[jayaussie]

The problem is there is no incentive for manufacturers or consumers to have this capability as there is no benefit to the device or consumer. Needs to be done through legislation.

[Lord.Kiltridge]

I have a smart thermostat and during the summer months, I use pre peak electricity to cool the house down _in advance_ of a hot day, then set it to 28°C to coast for the rest of the day. In a sense, I am using the air in my house as a battery. The city wanted me to give them the ability to shut my system off if they were concerned about power usage and I said no. Partly because I don't think they can manage my electricity better than I do, and partly because I think it's there job to improve the grid's infrastructure, and don't want them to pass the buck to the consumer. They privatised electricity production in my region and I resent a Corporation that pays out dividends instead of reinvesting profits in an essential service.

[bernardberari]

I love this development so much! Distributed networks pop up everywhere. The mycorrhizal networks connecting 95%of the plants on Earth, the Internet, insect colonies, etc!

[tomkelly]

I live off grid with solar and batteries in Canada and I love this idea! It could so well to help stabilize my battery situation here to have maximal usage when the sun is shining and minimal when it is not. It would greatly reduce my need for storage. Large industries do help with energy use modulation in some places, where a lumber mill will shut down during a very hot day to reduce injuries and allow for that power to go to AC units instead. They have deals with the local power providers to do this too. But yeah, AC, hot water, and car charging loads could all do this too

[immortalsofar]

I've got a van with solar panels, 300Ah of batteries a little-used inverter and lots of 12V stuff. My dump load is to the water heater (got to go somewhere) and I can disconnect the batteries if I need it in a hurry. Everything is connected up with current detectors throughout and combination switching available (eg inverter + coffee maker, - coffee maker, - inverter) etc. I use a similar system to this with the refrigerator unit going right down to the target during excess times and letting it float a little when power is scarcer. I've also got a relay ready to experiment with a brown gas generator only while driving.

[enemyofthestatewearein]

It''s a good idea, and it will certainly help with short term grid balancing and reducing peaks, but it would be naive to believe that demand flexibility alone can solve the total storage conundrum. The issue is that demand flexibility is limited in time - you can offset demands by perhaps a few hours at most. (e.g. you can delay heating or car charging a bit, but ultimately you plug it in because it's needed at a certain time) But storage measured in hours is not really an issue already - the real problem with intermittent renewable grids is seasonal storage, with storage measured in weeks, to cover those slack weather periods with little renewable resource. Demand flexibility won't help with this, unless people are prepared to sit in cold houses with cars they can't use for weeks on end. Of course with spot pricing models this does become a possible choice for consumers, but then we are likely getting into the realms of energy poverty, where some people live in very poor conditions because they can't afford the heating or to leave the house.