Does Quantum Randomness refute Determinism?

Another deterministic interpretation I should have mentioned is Everettian Many-Worlds, prominently associated with Sean Carroll these days!

#quantummechanics #determinism #freewill

[erikmartin]

That the uncertainty principle is ontological and not epistemological is lost in many of the explanations of how it works, but I think a good example that shows why it's ontological is if you look at the harmonic analysis of sound waves, which is basically the same math. If you look at what frequencies are present in a sound wave, what frequencies you can find depends on the length of the sound wave. If you're given a microsecond of quantized sound and asked how much 11 Hz and 12 Hz sound is present in it, it's not that the uncertainty relationship prevents you from knowing the answer. The uncertainty relationship prevents the information from existing in the first place. Similarly if you wish to encode those frequencies into a quantized sound wave, the sound wave must be greater than a certain minimum length in order to do so, otherwise it's numerically impossible for them to contain the information. That's the same relationship as everywhere the uncertainty relationship shows up in QM.

But the uncertainty principle isn't the most relevant thing to look at in QM in regard to nondeterminism, but rather the fact that all observables in the universe are modelled by the Schrodinger wave equation, which only makes statistical predictions, and so is an explicitly nondeterministic model. On top of that, we're free to imagine things that may be determining observables, as long as such a system still meets the statistical predictions of QM. That could be deterministic nonlocal pilot waves, nondeterministic "pure randomness", or some sort of non-local intentionality consistent with free will.

[DanielL]

As for the concept of free will, it is an absurd contradiction in terms. Choices, the best and the worst, are all constrained by factors and variables which have different weight and which deterministically deliver an outcome from a process or algorithm that has evolved and been selected for, whether that be a neural network or an analog electronic circuit. When we make choices, our emotional state biases the processing of the information available and contributes one of those major factors. Randomness on our macroscopic level is just a measure of the lack of knowledge or information or consciousness that we possess at the instant of the decision (Latte or regular coffee, feeling fat today or like a reward?). On a microscopic level QM delivers a high degree of determinism on a non-local basis where outcomes are spread over time and space and are highly entangled. The Wave function very precisely predicts overall patterns of the behavior of quanta. The illusion of individual autonomy is due to the failure to recognize our interconnectedness with the rest of the environment and the universe as a whole, or being in time. The Buddhists saw this illusion. There is no randomness in the universe, even on the Quantum Level, in the long run. It just looks that way as we interact with the ephemeral nature of the interconnected fields that permeate the entire universe. Your (and my) future is already determined friend. Cause and effect cannot be abandoned. Locality, never made sense to begin with. Have a good fate my brothers and sisters.

[bryandraughn]

I don't listen to any ideas about what a particle is doing "prior to measurement".
I mean, how would you know?

[sazajacz]

Understood about 80%. Thanks, very enjoyable.

[EvaleeWorld]

My main issue with determinism is the high degree of confidence that it is true. More specifically that determinism implies that all brain states for ever are determined from the Big Bang on.

If someone has time can they explain a few questions/concerns I have with the idea.

In determinism, why would, let’s say, two hydrogen atoms traveling toward each other with same momentum near the speed of light, result in the same outcome every time. Note that in this thought expirement one had the ability to exactly replicate the interaction. Why can’t their interaction, IN REALITY, be based in probability. In other words, what principle or experiment indicates that these two hydrogen particles will likely interact in the exact same way every time.

It seems like an ontological assumption that I can’t wrap my head around. It seems equally likely that there is an objective indeterminacy to reality at some level.

[CuriosityGuy]

Alex, how do you respond when they say emergence proves that free will exists?

[philipfong]

Pardon me, I am not into physics, just someone who watched a lot of science videos, although I know the terms and what they are, but not to the point of understanding to argue about it.
I am only interested in what made us exist and yet have no free will， if this notion is only mathematical or at quantum level, then I think it is wrong. Unless science found where are the information or blueprint needed to execute build instructions of living things, so far, scientists avoid this question.

[socialnginrin]

Awesome talk
I can tell you are probably a philosophy professor lol

[ShadowLynx]

I like how you explained everything leading up to your thoughts on the matter. Very informative.

Not your student, just a random internet girl that loves science and philosophy lol

Just my thoughts:
In a multiverse where every and all probabilities and outcomes are accounted for in other universes, determinism has to be true, because everything WILL always happen, but I believe determinism is impossible in a single universe state. Free will I believe is also real because probability exists. How much free will you actually have is up to debate

As long as math is true, probabilities exist, a multiverse is real, and/or quantum physics holds true, then determinism is dead

[daisyduck]

Quatums are not random ! They are under the law of determinism ! We just can't messure the determinism of it... So determinism is the truth and a universal law (after big bang). And that's why free will does not exist !