What is the First Quarter Debate? | Story Structure Pt. 2

This is the second video in my advanced story structure series, which focuses on the sections in-between the major plot points to better explain how to construct a novel or screenplay.

[hypnodream]

Ellen, I have enjoyed all your teaching from the past years but these videos that you are producing in 2022 are much more rich and full. I listen to them several times and get good insights each time. I am sure to do the same with today's video. These are true master class lessons. I would like to request a long lesson on plotting the story structure of a series and how the plot points are laid out from book to book. How does something that might appear in book three get prepared for in book one, etc.

[crystinapierce]

The Hunger Games is my all time favorite book because it is so well written. You can break down every scene and see exactly what she was trying to accomplish with it and it’s so affective. They also did a great job putting it into movie format- especially how they put pieces of the second book in to show how other districts reacted to Rue’s death. Also, the scene with the game master and the berries was so simple but a great addition. They had some amazing screenwriters.

[ladyelle]

I have watched this series more times than I can count. I thought I had pulled everything I needed from it but yet again you have given me new insight into the events and characters of my current WIP. Thanks again Ellen! This series should be a masterclass.

[thesunshowerphenomenon]

This was such a huge game changer for my story! I always felt like something wasn’t quite right with my current outline, but after watching this video I knew exactly how to fix the issue! Thank you so much!!

[biglogan]

I follow a lot of "how to write" channels, and have gone through huge amounts of other content in my journey to learn how to do all this ... and your content has been consistently some of the most helpful and practical and valuable. I've never created a patreon account before, but I think I'm going to. I really feel like your work has been a huge help and I feel as if I owe you a debt of gratitude ... since I can't do that in person, the least I can do is try and support you in your efforts.
I'm at work while I watch this video (don't tell my boss lol), but I'm going to set that up when I get home.
Thank you again for sharing your insights and perspectives.

[luckytrevelyan]

This was super clear and helpful, and I finally get why my character's "debate" never seemed that meaningful; I thought this was the one plot point I really understood, but it turns out I didn't, lol. But I do now!
And I second Pride & Prejudice for a breakdown!

[VinnyTheory]

Hey Ellen. I just wanted to come back here and say you saved my Act 1, and you saved me really. Anywhere else I looked, their advice kept saying that the disruption and end of the debate were one in the same; or worse, sometimes they’d call the catalyst at the beginning of a story the inciting incident and then leave me to dry on whether the disruption or the end of the debate was the end of my Act 1. But you, you put it so perfectly. You put all of this so perfectly, every quarter. And your videos look so professional. Anyway, I just hope you know how much you have helped all of us. It’s a wide lonely ocean out here ☺️

[francescaknapp]

I intuitively pantsed my first two novels and have slowly moved towards 'intuitive plotting', finding it saves me having to edit and fix so many problems that come up in my writing. I'm binging all your videos before I get to plotting my third novel, and it's all so helpful! Thank you!

[straps-of-skin]

That thing you said about forcing plot points into certain structural formats really helped me conceptualize my plot points much more clearly. Its like i had a blindfold on and didn’t know it.

[HasteWriting]

Nice video. Like you said, without this debate the reader doesn't feel like the decision is meaningful to the character. I think that's key: Making the impact on the character clear to the reader.

[RobinEgbertss]

Wow, that hunger games example really showed I misunderstood the concept before this video! Thanks a lot. I already feel better about where a few of my longer stories are going.

[dianecuneo]

I really appreciate these advanced writing discussions and would love to see more. I’m established as a writer, but diving into longer fiction I can find myself in murky waters in terms of structure—which can really stall me. But the trendy, showboats “save the cat’ type adaptations of the hero’s journey, and basic discussions about dialogue, narrative info dumps, character arcs, etc some of us are beyond that but need this higher level help. The videos also provide me with a ‘companion’ in the writing process, which is a psychological benefit for me, specifically, as my writing career usually involved a team effort and I’ve stalled a lot just from writing alone—ie being kept on track, which I find these videos a huge contribution. Also, great use of examples! The advise is genuine, not exploitive and assumes an intelligence on the writer’s part—love the absence of pandering.

So more advanced discussions: the use of subtext, unreliable narrators, etc in addition to these excellent (micro?) structures. When you talk about fails, it would be nice if you provide examples to these as well… but maybe that’s not politic. Thanks Ellen.

[Ayyavazi]

Great breakdown! I think it's also important to realize that the debate is never a factual question (paranormal vs. ordinary), but is instead always a values question

[stevecarter]

I love how every time i listen to one of your videos I'm thinking "well yeah, *ob*viously" about things I've never even considered before! Speaks to your clarity of presentation, I think.

[misskaterinat]

I can’t wait to see the rest of this series! You’re so right that the in between time between plot points can be confusing, so this is super helpful

[gigartina]

This was so helpful! I tend to follow more heroine’s journeys where there is more acceptance of the choice, but i see how a debate section could show how the heroine makes the choice despite fear or feelings of inadequacy (e.g. Romancing the Stone).
I’d like to see persuasion or Emma or pride & prejudice (books not films) assessed.

[miaramck]

Ella enchanted would be fun to deconstruct. I loved it as a kid, and it holds up to rereading.

[jasonhobbs]

Sometimes I wonder if methodological writers and editors try too hard to fit stories (which are amazingly complex) into simplified structures. What she says about hunger games is a great example of this, to me. Really, Catniss volunteering for the hunger games isn’t the 1st plot point??? It smacks to me of overfitted data. Ellen, I love your content, and I would love to hear you respond to this. What is story structure to you? Do you see it as truth? Or do you acknowledge that it is, by necessity, a flawed model of something very complex?

Regardless, watching your videos is helping me edit my 1st draft. You’ve helped me think in new ways. Thank you!

Cheers!

[riosaharu]

Ahh so exciting to wake up and see a new upload from you! I really connect with the way you describe the debate stage, especially your examples of stories where the protagonist has to choose between external change and confronting who they are on the inside, and how a story can bloom from either choice. (Juno was a particularly helpful example here!) Thanks so much!

[stevejames]

This is SO good. Your channel was always good, but it's going from strength to strength with your new content. Thank you, on behalf of myself and my writing.