David Albert & Tim Maudlin: Niels Bohr, Measurement, & Quantum Mechanics | Robinson's Podcast #210

David Albert is the Frederick E. Woodbridge Professor of Philosophy at Columbia University, director of the Philosophical Foundations of Physics program at Columbia, and a faculty member of the John Bell Institute for the Foundations of Physics. Tim Maudlin is Professor of Philosophy at NYU and Founder and Director of the JBI. This is David’s seventh appearance on Robinson’s Podcast. He last appeared on episode 189 with Barry Loewer to talk about the Mentaculus, their joint project on the foundations of statistical mechanics. This is Tim’s sixth appearance on the show. He last appeared on episode 188 with Sheldon Goldstein to discuss Bohmian mechanics. Tim and David last joined Robinson together for episode 67, which gave an overview of the foundations of quantum mechanics. In this episode, Robinson, David, and Tim talk about the measurement problem, the role of philosophy in physics, various thought experiments, like Schrödinger’s cat and Wigner’s friend, and Niels Bohr’s effects both on quantum mechanics and the philosophy of science. If you’re interested in the foundations of physics, then please check out the JBI, which is devoted to providing a home for research and education in this important area. Any donations are immensely helpful at this early stage in the institute’s life.

OUTLINE
00:00 Introduction
04:04 Einstein, Bell, and Pearl on the Measurement Problem
13:00 “Measurement” in Quantum Mechanics
25:34 What IS the Measurement Problem?
34:42 John Bell on the Measurement Problem
40:32 An Example of the Measurement Problem
45:38 Niels Bohr and the Measurement Problem
57:54 Niels Bohr’s Drastic Revision of Physics
1:08:36 Quantum Measurement and the Philosophy of Physics
1:22:52 Schrodinger’s Cat and Wigner’s Friend
1:38:34 Consciousness and Quantum Mechanics
1:45:40 The Measurement Problem, Solved?
1:51:04 The Role of Philosophy in Physics

Robinson Erhardt researches symbolic logic and the foundations of mathematics at Stanford University. Join him in conversations with philosophers, scientists, and everyone in-between.

[Mesohornet]

WOW! We are spoiled to have this access. Thank you Robinson, Albert, and Maudlin

[snowpants]

Albert's explanation of the difference between von Neumann and Bohr (as to realism) at around 50:00 is especially helpful

[bofbob]

Imma drink a shot every time David says "OK" and I have no fucking clue what he just said.

[jahsonora]

The two best guests....should be on once a month....

[JonDavid-rlks]

Please bring Barry Loewer back for a one-on-one discussion. You 2 have great chemistry and synchronicity. I was a little worried about Barry on his last appearance. He seemed less than 100% physically although mentally he was 200% and sharp as a whip! Could have been a bad day. We've sadly lost David Dennett which is a tragic loss. Barry is going strong, so this is not a forecast of any kind. I simply think we need more Barry on YouTube and he just lights up when you are moderating the talks.

[JoeLebrick]

glad to see the best in the game back at it!

[Gabriel-ptci]

Thank you very much, Robinson! This show as always was very very nice.

I like to hear Tim Maudlin discussing scientific realism with Bas Van Fraassen. Do you think something like that is feasible? Wouldn't it be nice?

[amihartz]

Maudlin should just admit he's a dualist. You cannot hold the position "the mind-body problem is insoluble" and not be a dualist, as that's like the definition of dualism. I've seen him in various lectures repeatedly argue that there is a fundamental insoluble disconnect between mind and body, yet he shies away from the term "dualism" despite arguing the literal position of dualism repeatedly.

[denisvoronin]

Maybe it's better to call it QM "theories" instead of "Interpretations" as every such "theory" provides their own ontology or epistemology. But with the same end results of course.

[jay]

26:20 - 5-minute summary of quantum mechanics

[stodgepodge]

The first discussion between these two is one of my favourites, cool to see more disagreement/debate in this one off the bat

[AngusRockford]

Thank you, Robinson! I was just about to rewatch some of the old episodes to get my much-needed Tim Maudlin fix. David is a very welcome bonus.

[NomenNescio]

I find it amazing that we still reference Heisenberg, Dirac and Schrödinger when these issues are discussed, there seems to have been no real progress in the fundamentals of quantum mechanics for a hundred years.

[JohnEButton]

Your mustache is what's holding back your star ratings

[michaelryan]

Particles in the mornin'
Particles in the evenin'
Particles at SUPPER-TIME

[nyworker]

Whenever we measure anything in everyday life the measurement has an implied starting point or boundry for the dimensions. What exactly are the boundaries for quantum measurement?

[milkenjoyer]

Robinson doesn't react to the comments anymore. Did they break him? 😢

[charlesprabakar]

Insightful podcast — and speaking of new philosophical and measurement paradigms, how about I present our i-TOE’s granular measurement approach measuring phases between up and down states of particles using the coordinates of the Riemann sphere?

That said, how about I present an overview of our theory as well so that you can understand what I mean? Simply Put --

Our i-TOE is an integrated TOE, that has been developed by framing fine structure constant(FSC-α) as the Hidden variable/Maxwell daemon/AoC of Banach-Tarski & Russell's paradox, in such away, that our “Ads/CFT/holographic principle complaint” Hodge lattice loop/gauge quantum gravity naturally can emerge from it with a discrete set of causal latticed Dirac spinor events, using our FSC’s 2/3:1/3 rule based computational/conscious CPTiad — all by leveraging our reality generating/regulating series function called CPT(α, Φ) function (developed using our meta proof of RH solving all $5MM+ CI problems) and by resolving the #1 relationship problem between the perturbation series of QED and non perturbation lattice formulation of QCD (as the coupling constant is sent to zero), by modeling the quantum spectrum of our Universe as the Riemann sphere. This Riemann sphere then gets renormalized with the value of α (n-> α or 137), in such a way that the zeros of zeta function(including their moments) end up following the eigenvalue statistical gaps of gaussian/hermitian random matrices before branching into two independent Brownian motion paths with an exponential Gaussian distribution of FHK Conjecture and our FSC-Maxwells daemon logic (by converging with an universality/gaussian decay), before branching again like the Ramanujan graphs with knots of algebraic L-functions with hermitian distribution whose coefficients & roots, reflecting the periodicity of the GR-Eigen-valued actions of our TOE, using 10+ meta dualities (with E8 and Lie group geometrical unity) as explained below


Our i-TOE's 5 such Shakespearean play-scaling steps vis-a-vis 5 scaling steps of IAS

IAS High-bar 1:
For any quantum gravity theory to be a TOE caliber theory, it must have an observation or nature based scale-correlation function, capable of both generating and measuring observables with a certain precision, by resolving the so-called measurement/scaling problem of both periodic fluctuations & early inflations, by re-scaling it automatically.

Our Shakespearean play-scaling Exposition 1:
The wave function (aka Hartle-Hawking wave function in steroids) of our i-TOE has exceeded this high-bar, as we've used nature's one such inbuilt “symmetry generating scaling function called CPT(α, Φ) function" to model both fluctuations & inflations. More specifically, it has been developed by leveraging our UNIVERSALITY META-SCALING-PROOF of Riemann Hypothesis(including all $5MM+ unsolved problems of Clay Institute), in such a way to scale/rescale the periodicity of both fluctuations and inflations(aka fluctuations in steroids) by expositioning/birthing their equivalent symmetrical dipoles(manifesting as Higgs + 68 particle+ 68 anti-particle symmetrical particle pairs, as modeled further by 2 spinors of Dirac eqn). For example, this idea of modeling these symmetries using 2 spinors in the complex plane is what gives rise to symplectic hodge geometry lattices in 3 and 4 dimensional classical hyperbolic cylinders of the projected plane.

IAS High-bar 2:
For any quantum gravity theory to be a TOE caliber theory, it must be able to discretize spacetime by renormalizing the RG flow with an action formula for all particles (especially asymmetrical/anti commuting fermions) with a time-like holographic interpretation.

Our Shakespearean play-scaling Rising Action 2.
Again, our wave function of our LQFT/TOE has exceeded this high-bar, as we've used the very same CPT(α, Φ) function as the “symmetry breaking CPT(α, Φ) function scaler”, by limiting the ∞-raised pole of Riemann sphere to a compact P-region, while simultaneously renormalizing the ∞ values of e with α, so that its position can be rotated as e^i137nπ Spin-Frequency (S-F) matched cycles unitarily. In other words, this S-F matching phenomena is what breaks the symmetry by shifting the center of mass of each particle by their respective “radius scaled α” so that their symmetry can be broken to create both classical mass and motion for every 1 out of 137(n) cycles in time dimension (and yet by preserving the conservation of CPT theorem).


IAS High-bar 3:
For any quantum gravity theory to be a TOE caliber theory, it must have a scaling/rescaling/limiting parameter for periodic action for lattice geometry, using a Fourier transformed action for both dS and AdS spaces with the opposite signs [I-ds(g) = - I-Ads(g)].

Our Shakespearean play-scaling Climax 3.
Our wave function of our LQFT/TOE has exceeded this high- bar as well, as we've used the very same Fourier transformed CPT(α, Φ) function scaler, to sustain the action with an “α fine-tuned e and π driven action”(thanks to our additional framing of α as HV/Maxwell daemon/AoC), so that the coefficients & roots of their equivalent algebraic modular forming L-functions can model the periodicity of their GR-Eigen-valued actions via 10+ meta dualities.

(Note : If I may highlight a parallel, your theory’s E(5, 13) walker function, in a way is equivalent to our GR-Eigen-valued fibinocci function F(5, 13) wherein, the walker is deemed to be at 5, when the13th event indexed by the corresponding Eigen value index of the elliptic (including 10+ dualities of projected plane)


IAS High-bar 4:
For any quantum gravity theory to be a TOE caliber theory, it must have measurement algorithms by modeling the curvature of spacetime in proportion to both fluctuations & inflations i.e. ψ ~ e^- δN with an exponent of 10^120 or 10^10) in such a way that gravity can emerge from it

Our Shakespearean play-scaling Falling Action 4.
Our wave function of our LQFT/TOE has exceeded this high-bar using its “Dice-rolling CPT(α, Φ) function scaler”, by slicing/squeezing the infinite slices (ψ ~ e^- δN) of quantum sphere in the form of one or four ellipsoid slices (as per the Descartes kissing circle geometry and α=r/R logic) into an exact radiused symplectic/asymmetric taurusized hodge geometry lattices of classical hyperbolic cylinder of the projected plane(aka Hilbert’s countable infinity hotel as per Banach-Tarski & Russell's paradox) so that they can orbit smoothly like the frames of Muybridge’s Horse in Motion with a curvature proportional to both fluctuations & inflations. This is where we have also additionally hypothesized/predicted that this gravitational motion can be modeled both by semi classical Einstein field equations and/or by our Hodge conjecture meta proof logic.

(Note : For example, a pragmatic implication of our Riemann hypothesis universality meta proof of Hodge conjecture is that the 3+ spherical body problem can be solved as 1 equiv. spherical body as follows : Inertia of r= αR gaped eccentric foci Riemann-Poincare Sphere(s=1) = Σ inertia of Riemann zeroed hodge algebraic cycles (S=1/2+ti).


IAS High-bar 5:
For any quantum gravity theory to be a TOE caliber theory, it must have an inbuilt statistical QM measurement system (for various scales) whose Hilbert space dimension must be able to model geometric dualities as per the static patch holographic principle, so that we can the measures accordingly.

Our Shakespearean play-scaling Resolution 5 :
Our wave function of our LQFT/TOE again has exceeded this high-bar, as we've used the very same “classical reality generating CPT(α, Φ) function scaler”, to resolve the dualities of the static patch holographic principle by projecting the Riemannian sphere as a Lie-grouped classical sphere with 10+ meta dualities as visually depicted in the attached exhibit.



That said, this precisely is why, we have also scaled 5 AITGE origins of our TOE (i.e. RH sourced the Action generator of the Lie group as Action, Inertia, Time. Gravity and Entropy) with these 5 ingredients of CPT(α, Φ) function scaler in such a way to answer the top 3 paradigm shifting questions you had alluded (plus few more as well)

That said, let us start with these 3 questions with a hope they will also answer all the other paradigm shifting unsolved problems like the Riemann hypothesis (including 5+ Clay institute problems), as our TOE’s new paradigm is anchored on our CPT meta proof of Riemann hypothesis including $5+MM CI problems) only!

[advaitrahasya]

1:26:22

Given the thrice-inverted paradigm, one ends up with the Woo of the observer.

Matter, not the wave-function, collapses between the low pressure Moments in the One Substance, and evolves fluidically as per wave-function.

It reappears when the toriodal forces in the One Substance cavitate the strings/particles (pure void/vacuum) in the next low pressure moment.

… but until the paradigmatic errors are corrected, the wignerian and von neumanian "observer" woo variations will be thought believable 😂

[advaitrahasya]

1:13:28

The Epicyclists, likewise, gave up on the "realism" of their times, and proposed their Crystal Spheres as a solution.

Maybe a little history should be part of the schooling of physicsts.

It is pretty clear too, that the standard mystery school exercises in examining one's assumptions is not part of academic philosophy schooling.

Either of those would have made ubderstanding quantum phenomena and the mechanism quite trivial.