Freedom from the Burden of Judging - A Conversation with Michael Wilcox (Part 1)

Hey everyone, this is Aubrey Chaves from Faith Matters. This week, we're thrilled to welcome back Dr. Michael Wilcox to the podcast. Michael is an esteemed author and longtime Institute teacher, and his previous episodes, which we released in two parts as "God's Many Voices" in episodes 85 and 86, have been some of the most listened to in Faith Matters' history. It's been three years since we last had him on, and we're excited to dive into another meaningful conversation.

In this episode, Michael shares his profound insights on the topic of the marginalized, particularly focusing on the experience of the LGBTQ community. Michael's wisdom draws from his own life experiences, wisdom traditions he deeply loves, and great literature.

Michael also addresses the challenge of navigating differing beliefs and values, urging us to avoid calling down "fire from heaven" on those who worship on different mountaintops. He speaks about the importance of forgiveness, and what he calls the "Lazarus Law," reminding us that every individual has a name and a story, deserving of respect and compassion.

Throughout the conversation, Michael's anecdotes and reflections encouraged us to approach the marginalized with love, humility, and a genuine desire for understanding. We found Michael, as always, to be filled with transformative insights that we thought could really help us build more inclusive and compassionate communities.

We’re also releasing an additional conversation as a companion to this episode. In it, Brother Wilcox shares a really personal story that highlights some of these principles, and if you’d like to hear more from Brother Wilcox, it’s on the feed right now.

Thanks so much as always for listening, and with that, we’ll jump right in.

[TriciaArnold-cz]

Thank you for this. My dad had a sex change operation back when I was about 25. I had 2 little children, and started having nightmares about seeing my dad. He finally called one day and asked to see me. I hemmed and hawed, and said I'd get back to him. I went to the temple fasting and praying, and hoping that the Lord would tell me I didn't have to see my dad again, but that's not the answer I got, of course. A memory came to my mind of being asked that, if I only had 3 more minutes of sight, what would I want to see? And I had answered "The faces of my children." The Lord then sent the Spirit to tell me that I couldn't keep my dad from seeing my face or the face of his grandchildren ever again; I knew it would be a terrible sin to do so. I was also reminded that Jesus said to love everyone as He had loved us, not "love everyone, except..." It was the hardest thing I ever had to do, and I was often depressed when my "aunt" came to visit. But my kids loved their "aunt." They all had such happy memories together. I learned then that God truly is no respecter of persons, and that we can't be, either. I did my very best not to ever harm my father with my words or actions, and I know that we were all blessed for so doing.

[bonitariggs]

Thank you Brother Wilcox. I have listened to many of your podcasts with face matters have thoroughly enjoyed them. This one was especially meaningful and poignant. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and personal experiences.❤

[vincemorgan]

This man is a beautiful human being and teacher. Thank you for this interview

[GODISMYSTERIOUS]

Michael Wilcox is such a good teacher. Please bring him in often to discuss any topics he wants. His talk is beneficial for the audience. I love to hear what he says.

[Daniela_Explored]

Watching from Prague and thrilled to be the first to love this episode. Love the integration of other faith traditions to better understand my own. And nobody has provided me a better tool to understand myself and my spiritual journey than The Chronicles of Narnia. They are part of my my religious cannon:)❤❤❤

[richardellsworth]

I and my wife enjoy and learn from your podcast. Thx so much for your insights and guests. I especially appreciate bro. Wilcox. I lost my first wife to brain cancer at 37, my second wife to a heart attack after surgery and my wife now is 4 months post from Thyroid surgery. I so can feel his grief/ love for his dear wife. I love his compassion and stories and this newest one has helped to be me into changes in myself. Bless you all.

[alightinthestorm]

Found him on my mission to Ohio some 18 years ago. Brother Wilcox, you’re one of the great thinkers of our faith. Thank you for all you do to build the kingdom 🙏🏼

[renatep.]

I am so happy the hear once more from Brother Wilcox! I have listened to his podcast God’s many voices, many times before going to sleep, and I just forwarded it to our senior missionary couple who had not listened to it, they were also amazed. I could listen to him all day, there are so many eye openers which inspire me to try and become a better person. Looking forward to part two of the conversation! ❤️

[judymacc]

We need to get Jordan Petersen and Michael together. And Robert Millett or Jared Halverson!! That would be an interesting round table!

[GODISMYSTERIOUS]

I would like to hear more from Michael Wilcox like this type of topics. He has deep insight about life. I am not a deep thinker. I listen to this lecture part 1 and part 2 again and again to understand the principles and deeper meaning. I see now those principles can be applied to almost every aspect of our lives whether in a workplace, a gym or any place. We can’t control people’s thinking. On our part, we at least do not marginalize people.

God calms me every time when I feel something tricky is working behind me. Recently, I start to doubt a situation after I returned from a trip. I asked myself, ‘Am I discriminated by that woman in the gym management?’. She often asks me ‘Do you enjoy your swim?’ in the lady locker room. It is a very causal greeting. Besides that, there is no other conversation between her and me. So there is no friendship.

I sense something wrong on my gym app on which I have booked my reservation of a swimming pool lane since day 1. All of sudden, I cannot book my swimming pool lane on my gym app as the time available is up to 4 pm only every weekday. I talked to that woman, Rhonda, in the management about the issue. She told me that all the lanes have been booked after 4 p.m., so there are no lanes available after 4 p.m. and that’s why I don’t see any lanes available after 4 p.m. on my app. Well, I have tried throughout the week, days and nights, 5 days, 4 days, 3 days, 2 days and 1 day in advance to book a pool lane for Wednesday and Friday evenings. There is no availability at all after 4 p.m. on my app.

Without talking to the same issue to Rhonda in the management, I called the reception desk to book a lane for me for an hour on Wednesday and Friday evenings. The man and the woman there immediately booked a lane for me successfully for the evening hours even my gym app didn’t show the availability of any lane in the evening hours. I have been calling the reception desk to book the swimming pool lanes for me since the recent three weeks. I have not missed any week after I returned from my Ireland trip in June till I travel again in August.

I don’t want to make a mountain out of a molehill. I don’t want to talk to Rhonda about the same issue again. She is the boss in the management. I stay quiet if there is no further issue to make me difficult. I will keep calling the reception desk to book my reservation. I look back to my life, I thank God for keeping me safe and calm. I get around many situations most of the time instead of confronting people who have waited for an opportunity to start a ‘war’. Some people do marginalize people. Some people are not happy about themselves. So they want to make others unhappy. There are also some people simply jealous and wicked. I will not let the miserable people make me miserable. I remain who I am. Enjoy myself and distance myself from fake and miserable people. Whether it is true or not in my gym hour situation, I know I don’t need to find out. If I find it out the evening hours are available on somebody’s app and not mine, am I going to sue the gym for discrimination? Definitely not! I stay in peace. God knows!

I know that truly kind people who do not discriminate people are very hard to find. Even in a church, some women and the female pastor were not kind but filled with hates and bias due to their radical political minds. A true Christian should not harbor hates. What a church it was! I don’t care about a church which is in the name only. People matter. If the people are unkind in a congregation or an organization, I leave those people quietly. If I don’t leave such people for whatever reason, I will put up a ‘respectful fence’ around them. I don’t need to hate the unkind people but keep a ‘friendly’ distance. Stay alert!

Honestly, I was not born a sociable person. Probably, I am a very socially awkward person. If God chooses a friend for me, that person must be a truly good person with an open heart who can make me feel comfortable with. That person will not discriminate me even when the others look at me in a very different way.

[robertlewis]

Love the sinner hate the sin we are all sinners though are sins are different 😢we all need to repentance through the Savior

[christyromero]

I enjoyed this so very much. It helped me to sort out my feelings as God wants me to, in a loving, kind way. Thanks so much to Michael Wilcox, and both of you!!

[RowanBlake]

To bring about change we need people willing to tear things down and get loud but we also need people willing to heal and build back up. So not everyone is going to get out there in the streets and protest. maybe their role is to heal those who have been harmed and build a better society back up.

[nadinek]

He gave the most non judgemental answer and continuance to have, really about anyone who sins.

[lightscenters]

very powerful discussion. thank you so much. I wish youd specifically discuss shunning.

[GODISMYSTERIOUS]

I am glad that I didn’t feel marginalized at all when I was among the LDS. Maybe, some ladies were curious about me but they made me feel comfortable with them. When I was with LDS, I saw only very friendly men and women who were well mannered.

[GODISMYSTERIOUS]

As I listen to this very interesting lecture again and again, I discover Michael Wilcox’s tune is funny, ‘physical!’. I learn from Zacchaeus’ Law that we need to offer front row seats to short statue people and don’t put them onto a tree. It’s very dangerous! A tree branch may break.

[amandadangerfieldpiano]

Thanks, Brother Wilcox. Good stuff to think about. I do hope every person on earth seeks truth: Knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come (Doctrine & Covenants 93:24). Truth also refers to light and revelation from heaven.

Truth shall spring out of the earth, Ps. 85:11 (Moses 7:62).

Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free, John 8:32.

I am the way, the truth, and the life, John 14:6.

[copied from Guide to the Scriptures]

[GODISMYSTERIOUS]

In the environment I grew up, I am glad that I am very comfortable and content with myself. I can eat alone and dance alone and pay no attention to the others because I know God is there. If people want to join me, make sure they are not troublemakers. Otherwise, I will walk away from them. Under the influence of my mother and my sister, I have lost trust in most women. I can’t imagine how women are attracted to other women, yikes! It is not a natural attraction. I believe that God creates men and women and we are attracted to opposite sex like magnets. It is natural. I cannot understand pride and LGBTQ. Nevertheless, in view of humanity, we should not deny or reject any human beings. Judgement belongs to God and not me or every one of us.

I have listened to this video at least 5 times in order to comprehend a little bit deeper about this lecture. It is indeed very interesting and a very good lesson: ‘Don’t call fire down from Heaven.’.

[GODISMYSTERIOUS]

Isolation or cancelation happened not only in a community but also in a family. When the family members were controlled and manipulated by a mother because the father was often away and he had another family, the mother Influenced her children to fully support her side. If one child among all her children stayed away from the gossips and bad words spoken against her own father from day one, she was seen as disobedient and an outcast. The whole family would gang up on that child and isolate her.