Ep. 16 - Awakening from the Meaning Crisis - Christianity and Agape

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Sixteenth episode of Dr. John Vervaeke's Awakening from the Meaning Crisis.

[hazardousjazzgasm]

I promised myself I would rewatch this series while taking notes and getting the books listed, and so far the re-visit has been even more fulfilling than my first go-around over a year ago. Erich Fromm, Nishitani, Tillich, Barfield and so many other writers have been enlightening me in ways like never before. This is the youtube series that keeps on giving.

[Patrbrid]

John, as a believer I so appreciate your respect, care and diligence in this video. Each video I say wow this one is the best! However each Friday I have to recant my previous statement. Outstanding work and your respect for the content is so deeply appreciated. Well done Sir!!!

[alisaruddell]

“God is creating the future: He’s creating the historical process and course of history that makes people possible. See, agape is the kind of love that creates persons... the way a parent loves a child... by loving that non-person, you turn it into a person... it’s a God-like ability that we have to participate through love in another being. We can transform that being from a non-person into a person.”

Beautifully said, that moved me to tears!

[RenatasVilcinskas]

*The Psychological Significance of the Bible by John Vervaeke*

[janmacable]

Absolutely inspired by your concept and explanation of agape. I have been a Christian for a long time and always believed God is Love but somehow your understanding has lit a new flame in my heart.

[juliawest]

That was AMAZING.

I am so moved by this. It's a sense of both awe and relief. Navigating these concepts is so heart-wrenchingly, brain-crunchingly difficult and has tormented and uplifted me in a dizzying dance for huge chunks of my life. Your insights weave for the first time a clear path through these greatbighuge ideas and conflicts. I am awed constantly by the fact that this series exists.

Each episode leaves my jaw closer to the floor than the previous one. Thank you, John. A million times, thank you.

[saqlainsajid]

You sir, have become a personal kairos to me, fundamentally changing my modal existence. What a transforming series to say the least. Can’t thank you enough.

[eScooterRidesPerth]

I need to listen to these lectures 2 or 3 times.

[mathnihil]

I'm so grateful for your existence, professor Vervaeke.

[tesfadan]

I’ve left the Christian faith for about 3 years now and hearing John read that passage from Corinthians brought me to tears.

[andrewrenwick]

I struggle with the "magic language" of the church. Framing eros, phileo, and agape in this accessible way is so appreciated. And FORgiving! Yes!

[shannonrosengarth]

Ok, Paul VanDerKlay, have fun with this one! And when you do, I’d love to know if you think that John Vervake, JBP, and other non-Christians are in some ways better at articulating Christian values than our own priesthood of believers... IMHO, at least in this secular generation, it seems to be so.

[kadergreen]

Prof. Vervaeke: I learned so much from all your lectures and thoughts. I observed that your passion and love for truth is felt in this lecture. I feel your struggle to want that Jesus love but still struggling to not allow your self to surrender to it. Inner conflict with god. I hear anger ( frustration)and little pushing away of what you crave. I grow up with foundational religion and I resist the god that was shoved down my throat. I love and respect your process and will continue with lectures. You are already a saint don’t worry about finding god at the level of mind.

[llamzrt]

Had to come back here after hearing Pageau's definition of love as a multiplicity joining a single purpose to exist as one, without destroying the initial the multiplicity — existence as both as a whole and a communion of distinct parts. It is useful to combine this with your elucidation of eros as consumptively doing away with multiplicity, and philos as working toward a unified goal while maintaining multiplicity. In this light agape strikes as the "highest" progression of love in its subsuming both the oneness of eros and the multiplicity philos — but also the "lowest" grounding of love in that it enables distinct phenomena to exist to begin with.

[alexey]

What a gorgeous lecture. The best interpretation of Christianity I have encountered thus far.

[juancarloshernandez]

Thank you for sharing your insight and knowledge.

[ollliveira]

I can't pull apart your teachings from the meaning they represent to me, kind of quoting the lessons ☺️.
You're amazing, John. Thanks for sharing such a wonderful path with us.
It is life changing.

[pkpapers]

According to several Christian pastors this is the best presentation on agape -- even though it is presented by a non-believer -- they have ever come across. ---- "Someone had to do it." (Jordan Peterson) ---- "16:00 - Segment on agape. I've had many Christians, including Christian pastors, like Paul VanderKlay, say that was one of the best explanations of agape he'd ever heard."

[nikgervae]

I keep watching these videos, because he is making clearer so much of history and philosophy, and he starts each one so calm, and I hope, this time he won't yell, and then he always starts yelling.

[calebramon]

John, thank you for this amazing series. I was doing a transparency to opacity shift today on the subject of Agape. Looking at the various features from my old framing of this word. This sense of For-Giveness, to show love to someone before they 'earn' it...before they have shown love to you perhaps. That it helps them develop into 'person hood.' I can see many beautiful things about looking at Agape this way.
I've also experienced a dangerous way this can be used within a Cult I was raised in. Perhaps you can spot the subtle but important differences from what you're presenting here? In the cult, you would find yourself in an Agent Arena relationship where you are loved 'only' for your potential future self. You did not deserve love as you were, so you did everything you could to conform yourself to their Gestalt. You do this in hopes that one day you might actually be loved and valued in the present moment. The predicament with this orientation though, is that the future self was never reached. As we know, there is always a better future self. Life is always in the process of change. So a person would be endlessly trapped desperately chasing a mirage that could never be reached. Some future version that would be worthy, valued and loved as is. There was a definite illusion of some Perfect 'final version' of yourself that would be attained one day. Reminds me of the 'Having Mode". Perhaps this dilemma is 'Modal Confusion'?
I have been developing a new framing around love and its relationship to growth. Realizing that we are always 'Becoming' has helped me stop trying to attain some Top of the Mountain in hopes that I will finally be accepted. Instead, what if you loved and valued yourself and other life forms(human or not) as it is? As life that is naturally in the process of change. Needing no justification. Life is, so choose love. What if you loved and valued the nature of life as it is and because it is, Being Process. And that love is what welcomed you, in your process, to enjoy and value the Being mode. To enjoy a playful flow of the process of learning and gaining wisdom. Yes even the mistakes, crashes and missing the marks. It's all part of the process. We know that great accelerated learning happens in a playful flow state and we know that with continued learning and gained wisdom, we will be afforded increased ability and capacity to adapt with the constant of change. Hopefully, through both changing things 'that we can change' in our environment and changing our mental framing in relationship to the 'things we cannot change', we will be able to improve the experience of life for ourselves and other living creatures. Why would we want to improve the experience of life, because we love all the living parts of life.