Confucian Critics of Confucianism

In this video lecture, Professor Van Norden discusses two Confucian critics of other Confucians, Dai Zhen (1724-1777) and Zhang Xuecheng (1738-1801).

Qing Dynasty Confucian Critics of Song Dynasty Confucianism

0:55 My Cat Drops In

1:16 Introducing Dai Zhen
4:23 Two Views of “Pattern”: Indra’s Net vs. Good Order
9:25 The Rarity of “Pattern” in the Confucian Classics
13:23 The Influence of Buddhism and Daoism on “Song Confucians”
15:41 “Pattern” and the Reciprocity Test of the Analects
18:38 Using “Essential Feelings” for the Reciprocity Test
23:37 Regulating vs. Extinguishing Desires
26:07 The Necessity of Physical Desires for Morality
32:29 Summary of Dai Zhen’s Claims

37:40 Introducing Zhang Xuecheng
42:20 Criticism of the Song Confucians
45:31 The Distinction Between the Way and How Things Out to Be
48:45 The Way and the Origin of Human Societies
50:33 The Analogy of the Wheels and Their Tracks
53:14 The Analogy of a Shape and Its Shadow
55:21 The Namelessness of the Way
56:10 Summary of Zhang’s Analogies
57:50 Implications for the Confucian Classics
1:01:06 The Historicity of the Actions of the Sages
1:02:20 Comparing Zhang and Hegel
1:06:33 Left Hegelians vs. Right Hegelians
1:08:50 Venerate Kongzi’s Character, Not Kongzi’s Actions
1:11:12 Avoid “Empty Words”

1:11:30 Lecture Overview

[islaymmm]

In Japan, Confucianism is often vilified as one school of thought that has done a lot of harm to the integrity of Japan and still continues to exert undesirable influences on the people's ideological background. I bought into that idea so I've been blindly against anything associated with Confucianism especially the ethics even though, as you've pointed out, it comes in different flavours. This is a fascinating lecture and is making me reconsider the way I look at Confucianism. Thank you.

[professorrshaldjianmorriso]

It is often said that historical consciousness did not exist prior to Hegel. But those who hold this view clearly have not heard of Zhang Xuecheng 章學誠 (1738-1801). Great lecture. Thanks for sharing!

[mandys]

Now that you have pointed out Li, I noticed it this morning in an article about Song Dynasty tombs; many of the burials were arranged in space according to the book of patterns: Dili Xinshu, New book of Earth Patterns, a popular geomancy manual. I probably would not have noticed, but that I heard your lecture the night before.

[Rossion]

I like Wang Yangming's perspective on ontology. Great lectures! If I get any book vouchers over Christmas, I'm going to get your book on Classical Chinese philosophy.

[AntonioWolfphilosophy]

The connection to Hegel at the end of the lecture is interesting, but I'll add an emphasis you did not. What I see closest between these thinkers is not historicity, but the adamant emphasis on concreteness against abstraction.

Hegel, for example, seems to agree that right and righteousness appears due to and for human satisfaction and desires in a community. Embodiment and human desire is necessary, and nature cannot be abolished from the divine. That what is proper for an individual is itself individualized and cannot be general is also a point of agreement, and so we find that Hegel fights against the shadows of abstract morality with ethical life, and further, he offers individuals no law or empty universal for living their lives which is not immanent to their concrete situation and desires. The rationalization through the golden rule is also immanent here, although Hegel makes it more concrete.

Thank you for your lectures, you further kindled my very recent interest in Chinese thought.