Why is Fencing so Unrealistic?

The Olympics are nearly here so I thought I'd prepare for the onslaught of comments: "car antennas" "electrified tag" "why don't they make the swords sharp" etc.

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[ericdew]

Saber favors the attacker, epee favors the defender, and foil is neutral. That's why saber is fast, epee is slower, and foil is somewhere in between.

[Naki]

As an ex-fencer, I fenced all three weapons and frankly, I think foil foster better habit and mindset when changing to HEMA. No matter what, fencing and HEMA are both still a hell lot of fun

[HaraldHofer]

"Epee is slower because epeeists have more patience" - Not really an explanation. The question should be: Why are they more patient?
Here are some major differences to the other weapons:
1. The whole body is a valid target. This changes the game totally.
2. Double hits are possible. Makes you reconsider your moves, especially if you are behind. "Doubling to the victory" is happening quite often.
3. And most important: There is no priority rule in epee. This changes the strategy totally.

[xyon]

1:11 - *"Fencers aren't training to hurt people"*

Fencer: * proceeds to hurt a person *

[OceanHedgehog]

Fencing itself is very unlike real sword combat, but it still teaches you the fundamentals - keeping an appropriate distance and energy conservation. These two skills are essential and and transferrable to any combat system, be it another sword-fighting style like Kendo, or a martial art like boxing or Wushu.

[NolanDraconis]

Funny that he considers fencing extremely unrealistic, but then proceed to show scenes from movies, which are usually not so accurate.

[WolfKenneth]

As HEMA practicioner I would love to see more cross training with fencing guys. I had really lot of fun visiting fencing club and trying epee weapons ar so light no constraints with clothes you can be soooo fast what I didn't liked wasn't noodle blades but field not being able to go sideways any meaningful way was really constraining for me longsword waving monkey.

[casperhowell]

The difference, also, comes from the fact that things evolve over time- even if the sport of fencing shared all the same rules and equipment with the way it was done in the past, it would still have changed- watch footage of any other sport from 50, 60, 70 years ago vs the same sport today. Techniques evolve, things get built on, what worked yesteryear no longer applies. It's part of how sports work.

[aragotoblythe]

Great video. I do HEMA and I often have friends asking why I return so bruised if I went to a fencing tournaments, "one of those little swords did THAT!?" While I know my saberist friends have some pretty gnarly bruises, I often have to explain that I fight with longswords and certainly there are points in the conversation where they must imagine me LARPing as a part of it. I'm going to save this video to help with the explanation, thank you.

[georgeniederriter]

My understanding is that fencing as a sport isn't based on "swordfighting" so much as dueling which was historically almost never to the death (as it is usually presented in fiction) but far more frequently to "first blood". Looking at it this way, it seems that modern fencing is much more realistic than many other combat sports such as Olympic taekwondo & judo which are based on unarmed fighting but modified to fit a point system. The sport of fencing fits the "dueling" mold better than Olympic taekwondo & judo fit the "fighting" mold.

*edit*
Even in a "first blood" duel, the risk of death still existed. & the frequency of deaths varied throughout history. But overall, in the style of duel which fencing is based on, death was rare because death was not the goal.

[nehemiahmarcus]

They may not be trained to kill, but it would be a mistake to challenge a skilled fencer in a knife fight. In the blink of an eye, you would be wondering what happened.

[fabriceclement]

"Fencers aren't training to hurt people"
*proceeds to poke an eye*
Perfect association of words and pictures 😄

[OwlTeaGames]

I took a year of foil and around a half a year of epee back around 2000 at a community center. It was taught by some Russian guy whose teenage kids were training for the Olympics. He thought the best way to train them was to feed them an endless supply of weaklings. Most people only lasted for a couple sessions, tops. Of course, that didn’t matter, since there was a waiting list a mile long to get in.

The only reason I was able to get in was because everyone was allowed a plus one, and a friend from Writer’s Group had been a member for years. I still had to pay $20 for the class, basically twice as much as having paid for a membership. Which I was waaaay down on that waiting list.

1. The blades 20 years ago didn’t look *that* bendy.
2. Those kids specialized in epee, and made it really not fun.
3. Saber drills are both creepy and boring in equal portions.
4. Crowdfighting was actually a fun way to end each session. Split the class in two, line up on either side of the room, and then commence to swording until someone called a touch. Break apart, argue a bit, and the loser goes to the sidelines to help judge. Rinse and repeat.
5. My friend from writer’s group was in his fifties but was only one of a few students that could hold their own against the epee brats. (We had a more… colorful name for them.)
6. His secret? He studied the old forms and practiced in his living room when he had writer’s block. “There’s that, and of course, a large glass of red wine about an hour before class.”
7. Most importantly, the foils had screw-on button tips. The epee kids loved to get into arguments, to which my writer friend was oddly exempt. I asked him why they never picked on him. “I waited until their dad was in the bathroom. I told them all that I had nothing left to live for, and asked if they were ready to take the buttons off. They never harassed me again.” That night, i unscrewed the button of my foil and slew the leather recliner, learning what the step into the lunge is really for. I learned exactly why the hand must be held at such an angle, and why that angle must be held when stepping back. It’s not for touches. It’s so you don’t stress your wrist while your blade dips in an out out your enemy. I superglued my tip back in.

[dennis-mariusthieme]

The last video is so important for Hema. It is showing one of the last duels in the world. It was in France in the 60s (I think) two members of the parliament of the 5 French republic have blame each other for insulting the other. So they fought with the sword. Duelling was forbidden in this time, the duel endet with a cut in the hand of one (fight for the first blood).

[wilagaton]

Fencing is a sport
Not a martial art

Exactly. Thank you!!
But I still think sport fencing has its place in the greater world of sword arts. Because it has one thing other sword art doesnt have: INTENT. No matter what weapon based martial art you practice, during sparring, you would hold back, subconciously or not. Because you really wouldnt want to hurt your sparring partner. This is sport fencing's greatest quality, it allows for the participants to go all out and really not worry about any serious injury. To have real serious intent to go and hit your opponent with your weapon. No other weapon based martial art can replicate that.
They should really stop scoring for flicks though 😅

[ronaldoishihara]

When combat becomes competitive and regulated to avoid serious injuries as much as possible, it tends to distance itself more and more from its primitive origins with effective use as a harmful weapon. As a taekwondo black belt, I'd say that the same goes for martial arts that have become olympic or strongly competitive in the sporting context.

[donaldbadowski]

Epee fencers have more patience? I have another take on it. With two evenly matched epee fencers, statistically your are more likely to score on a counterattack than an attack. So as the tournament reaches the quarter finals, everyone waits on the opponent to attack first. Now I admit I don't have such statistics to back this up. But when you see team epee competition, you'll often see the reserve fencer making a note on a pad after every touche. I have my doubts they are writing down the blade actions, like "Indirect attack defeated by C6 parry riposte". No, they are keeping it simple, and someone, like the coach, is analyzing these notes and coming to the conclusion that it is better to counterattack.
And if that isn't enough, there is always 2001 Team Epee Championships, Estonia vs Hungary.

[leaf]

As a boxer into martial arts of all form I alwyas get really confused about fencing, I understand the idea of it being a sport but this dumbing down of fencing and swordfighting is bad, fencing used to be a serious martial art if you look at what the French were doing in the middle ages, even recently you can look at martial arts like tawkendo be made more sport like then how it used to be, karate with its mcdojos, boxing with its terrible trainers and unhealthy unmotivated fighters, wrestling not even having a serious popular fighting sport or tournament unless you count people in the ufc who do wrestle, I mean it's seriously silly to say call it fencing, just because their two weapons doesn't mean it's what it is supposed to be

[johndoe-xcyg]

Actuatlly HEMA duels are pretty epic, at least compared to modern “fencing”. Honestly I don’t see how a modern fencer can consider themselves a martial artist in the slightest.

[SlicerSabre]

I made this video in anticipation for the Olympics when there will possibly be more of the uninitiated looking at fencing videos. If you are one of these people then welcome to the world of modern fencing.