What We Still Don't Get About Vietnam | Tim O'Brien | Big Think

What We Still Don't Get About Vietnam
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The rebellious anger of the Vietnam era hasn’t stopped war. In fact, “a slight stink of the hip” now surrounds our cultural memory of the event.
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Tim O'Brien:

Tim O'Brien is an American novelist. His books include the National Book Award-winning "Going After Cacciato" (1978), as well as his debut novel, "If I Die in a Combat Zone, Box Me Up and Ship Me Home" (1973); his most recent novel, "July, July" (2002); and the Pulitzer Prize finalist "The Things They Carried" (1990), a combination novel/short story collection/memoir based on his experiences in the Vietnam War. A special twentieth anniversary edition of "The Things They Carried" was released by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt in 2010.
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TRANSCRIPT:

Question: Are you satisfied or angered byrn the way Vietnam isrnremembered?

Tim O’Brien: Yeah. rnMostly pissed off. I meanrnit comes down on that side. rnThere’s a mythology that a company’s memory of an event, and by rnandrnlarge for my fellow soldiers in Vietnam, the mythologies of betrayal. We were betrayed by ourrngovernment. We were betrayed byrnthe liberal press. It wasn’t ourrndoing, it was their doing.

In the same way that after World War I, the Germansrn werernpreached to by the forces of what became Hitler, you were betrayed at rnthe endrnof World War I and Germany was sold down. rnAnd by at large my buddies feel that way, that we could have won rnthe warrnif more people were killed and more women raped, and more houses burned,rn wernwould have won it. I don’t thinkrnthey’re right, but they feel that way. rnI think you could have paved the country with concrete and put uprn a bigrnfence around it and you’d still have all these people who don’t want yournthere. "You’re Americans, and we’rernVietnamese and this is our country and you may have the concrete and thern bombsrnand the technology, but you’re not going to win us. Yourn may have won a war, in a way."

Well, so there are mythologies of memory. And my dad carried with him out ofrnWorld War II a mythology of America, the Lone Ranger, the doer of good, rnand therncarrier of the democratic flame, and it had an undercurrent of almost a rnsoundtrack of Frank Sinatra...Gene Kelly soundtrack running beneath it rnof buoyancyrnand of virtue. And the soundtrackrnthat ran beneath the movie of Vietnam, you know, and all the people who rnarerngoing to watch this know is not that “I’ll Be Seeing You,” “SentimentalrnJourney” soundtrack. It was arnsoundtrack of The Doors, and The Stones, and it was edgy and critical, rnand muchrnmore ambiguous soundtrack that more or less accurately reflected thernambiguities and the absence of certain moral underpinnings to thatrnenterprise. Those are two prettyrndifferent edifices of this called mythology about a war. rn And mythology is a way of eliminatingrnall that doesn’t fit into it. Yournsort of eliminate that part of it. rnAnd certainly that has happened, certainly for my generation as rnwell asrnmy dad’s.

Question: Has the rebelliousness rnsurrounding the war gainedrnits own kind of allure?

Tim O’Brien: Yeah, I think there’s probably rnsome truth inrnthe notion that there’s an insidious and dangerous side to the mythologyrn thatrnsurrounds Vietnam. It has a slight stink of the "hip" and the "cool" andrn of thern“walking the dangerous line.” And I think there was an exotic feel to rnthe war inrnthis far-off jungle and that was part of the mythology around it. It sort of beckons one anew to thernadventure when we have my exotic experience and dangerous moment that rnmanagesrnto erase the absolute horror of it all... the dead people and the deadrnchildren, and just the horror.

That may be part of what every writer about rnwar has finallyrnhad to come to terms with in one way or another, that pretty great booksrn havernbeen written, including "The Iliad" and "The Odyssey," that haven’t endedrnwars. They haven’t ended the appetiternfor it and it probably won’t. rnThough you always hope.

[mikeholmes]

I am a Combat Vietnam Vet. What O'Brien says here and what he writes in his books is the real "truth"...

[robertplumb]

Thank You Sir, for Your Wisdom and memories.

[larrylinn]

Bruce Hershensohn bases his whole position on the on a geopolitical perspective, with no regard or understanding of the internal ethnic, religious and economic conflicts which were going on in Vietnam for many years prior to the entry by the United States into the middle of the conflict. There was conflicts between the Catholic powers which ran the country in Saigon and the rural oppressed Buddhists in the rural areas, as well as conflicts with the Chinese. The Montagnards were enemies of all of the Vietnamese. Most of the civilian Vietnamese people spent their lives within 100 kilometers of where they were born, and grew up with very little education, let alone medical service. Ho Chi Minh was an expert at playing China and the Soviet Union off against one another to get what he needed. Short of a Carthaginian peace, our efforts were futile.
I was a common 11B infantryman, and after I returned from Vietnam and was discharged after being shot at Nui Ba Dinh, I worked to get us out.

[jerryhassler]

Julius & Ethel Rosenberg gave nuclear secrets to the Soviet Union because they loved what communism pretended to represent. We ended WW 2 with the Soviet Union grabbing most of Eastern Europe, enslaving millions under communism. China became communist at the end of WW 2 under Chairman Mao. Korea was divided into two countries, one under communism. Hungary revolted from Soviet control, appealed to the West for help and was met with silence and death as the Soviet Union scared everyone. Castro took over Cuba, at first denying he was communist, until he exerted full control. His buddy Che was running around over Central and South America preaching how wonderful communism was. The Domino Theory was in place due to global events. At the end of the Indochina War, Vietnam was divided into two countries, one communist. Former colonial powers were being replaced by communism's appeal. Our mistake was two fold, first was taking over the war and second, scared of escalating it to the point of both China and The Soviet Union taking direct intervention on the side of North Vietnam.