Tuplet-Ception: Learning Nested Tuplets in 3 Simple Steps

How should a performer approach nested tuplets? Here, I demonstrate my method of tackling these superficially intimidating rhythms using Frank Zappa's “The Black Page No. 1” as an example.

For similar vital rhythmic topics, watch Adam Neely and David Bruce's respective coverages of Irrational Meters:

And Adam and Shawn Crowder's respective coverage of tuplet polyrhythms:
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[SamuelRHoward]

My friend, composer John Aulich, has offered some of his own elaborations:

"Some strategies that could complement your own, offered here just for anyone watching this video to suss it out:

- You can often 'collapse' nested tuplets into one (e.g. triplets inside triplets are 9:8 tuplets, and any un-nested bits can be converted by dividing durations by 2 and multiplying by 3).

- In case tuplets start and end in places completely antithetical to the pulse implied by the time signature, you can treat the metronome beats as any arbitrary number of subdivisions. If everybody is playing tuplets, and there's no referent, I've found this is the easiest way to feel reassured you're in time.

- Act like you know what you're doing if you get lost - perception is everything

- one last tip: In the midst of playing, if a complex/nested tuplet 'feels' like another simpler one, it probably actually is. I found this especially with compounds like 15:12 (to pick an obvious one)..just by playing you intuitively discover it's just a series of much less intimidating tied 5:4s or 3:2s."

[chamberpaint]

I was at rehearsals for Frank's instrumental show at the Hollywood Bowl, where the Mothers band members did not perform with the Los Angeles Philharmonic musicians Frank had hired. The sheet music proved a challenge to some of these World Class musicians, with SO MANY NOTES on a page! At one point, the bassoonist just threw up his hands, exasperated by Frank stopping repeatedly and pointing at him. Frank could hear his errors in the midst of a particularly complex section...he had an amazing set of ears...and refused to continue til the guy got it right. Tensions were high that day, in that crowded space, in an empty commercial spot more suited for a small shoe store. Frank was still using crutches attached to his arms, hampering his baton action. It was a difficult rehearsal that day. They had only a week more to get it right, before the show. It was BRILLIANT, of course, and Frank strolled onstage without his crutches.
It's wonderful to see this video. That bassoonist could've used your help.

[jaznseedski]

This is such a great way of practicing this stuff. Having each rhythmic pulse panned to each ear while the melody remains stereo is brilliant. It really gives the three part structure of the nested tuplets a sense of division or counterpoint...something like that. How hilarious is it that YouTube gives the red underscoring (meaning misspell) to tuplet ! I love your analyses and I look forward to more of them.

[onesyphorus]

broooo u on some crazy stuff o'er here ! thanks for uploading this!

[MediaCollection]

Is Mr. g's variations available anywhere?

[andresfelipeprietomontoya]

Hello, #Samuel. I'm composer from Colombia. I've a qstn about the use of tuplet. Firstable, What program have you used to write your music, finale or another relationated? If it's Finale 2014 or 26, I want to make an inquiry.

I'm currently using principles of numerical-rhythmic proportion,
presented at different structural levels of complex durations for
composing, like Ferneyhough have used. As I have said, I want to apply these principles, making
subdivision of values, at different levels of structuring and complexity
of the same rhythmic figure(s). My qstn focuses on the digitized
notation to some musical situations, around the use of Tuplet Definition
Tool, selecting the option NUMBER (X: Y or X : Yq or Xq: Yq).

I want to apply any type of desired proportion (5: 6; @; @, etc.), taking

the value of x-duration (quarter notes, eighth notes, etc.) in the
y-space (quarter notes, eighth notes, etc.) will give me any flexible
rhythmic form. So far, finale allows me to make any type of
configuration desired in the metric, applied to a layer.

What is inconvenient for me and I would like to know is how to solve it when I

want to apply a new ratio to a figure or group of rhythmic figures that
have already been proportionated (example: 7:5 and taking some part and
subdividing again in 6:4). I tried, in principle, to apply the ratio 7:5
to a layer 1 (divided in three halfdotted notes) and later apply the
new subdivision of 6:4 (to one or two of the half dotted notes to a
layer 2), but unfortunately the result is not as expected.

Grettings,

Andrés;

[Yadeehoo]

0:43. By removing the overarching tuplet aren't you missing the whole point ?
If the bar has an overall 3 beats feel, breaking it into 4 beats i fundamentally wrong. If you build from there it's all wrong