Scientists Discuss Music and the Origins of Language

Did early humans sing before they could talk? Neil deGrasse Tyson and Chuck Nice discover how music helps us recall memories, the singing Neanderthal theory. the default mode network, and how music can be used as medicine with neuroscientist and bestselling author, Daniel Levitin.

Would we have been able to communicate with aliens using music like in Close Encounters of a Third Kind? We explore Levitin’s new book I Heard There Was A Secret Chord which explores how music not only enriches our lives but also impacts our brains, behavior, and health.

We discuss how music can be a source of pleasure and how it captivates us—ever wonder why certain songs get stuck in your head? We explore how music has been a critical form of communication for thousands of years, predating written language, and how it helps encode knowledge and transmit information across generations. From ancient bone flutes to modern-day symphonies, why does music hold such a powerful place in human history?

We also dig into music's therapeutic powers—how it can boost cognitive reserves, help Parkinson's patients walk, relieve pain, and even enhance memory. Did you know that music has the power to activate every part of your brain? Whether you're soothing a baby with a lullaby or summoning old memories through a favorite song, the impact of music is profound. Levitin explains how music therapy is being explored as a potential solution to alleviate neurological afflictions like multiple sclerosis and Tourette syndrome.

Learn about the relationship between music and the brain’s "default mode network"—the state your brain enters when it’s at rest or wandering. We explore memory retrieval and how it’s tied to music’s ability to trigger unique, specific memories.

Discover why certain songs can transport us back to vivid moments in our past, acting as powerful cues for recalling experiences. We discuss how music persists beyond memory-related conditions like Alzheimer's, as seen in the case of Tony Bennett, who, despite the progression of the disease, retained the ability to perform his beloved songs. This connection between music, memory, and neural activation offers exciting possibilities for therapeutic applications in the future.

Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction: Daniel Levitin
2:55 - Communicating to Aliens Using Music
6:12 - The Evolution of Music & Singing Neanderthal Theory
11:55 - Music v. Communication
15:45 - Neuroscience of Music & Memory Retrieval
24:34 - The Default Mode Network
28:24 - Music as Medicine
42:13 - How Does Memory Work?

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[StarTalk]

If early humans were jamming before they could talk, what do you think their first hit song would’ve been about?

[whatdamath]

I took Levitin's class back in the days when he just started teaching psychology and I still ponder about some of the stuff he taught us back then.
It'd be nice to sit down and listen to his lecture one more time just to see what I missed in the last 2 decades

[haitian]

As an artist and science nerd, this had been my favorite one so far. I learned a lot from this one.

[dannybodros]

You can clearly see that Chuck was really captivated by this subject.

[philbroscovak]

My eldest child spent his in-utereo time hearing the theme song to Star Trek TNG at the same time every night. For two years after birth every time that song came on TV he would turn and walk towards it like the Eloy hearing the dinner bell.

[theanthropologist]

As a medical anthropologist with MS, I find this particular academic conversation beyond fascinating. I dare say I've found my new obsession. I want to get involved in this sort of work and research immediately.
Thank you gentlemen.

[MrFlottgote]

Chuck's spontaneous analogy to the waggle dance of bees is, truly, the most intelligent interjection I've heard on Star Talk so far. And that's saying something.

[patriciahuff]

This needs to be a longer episode or have a part two.

[reinelibre]

I am actually feeling depressed and find myself smiling listening to this interesting discussion. The chemistry between the hosts and guest, the jokes and honest opinions from everyone make this show so easy to listen and follow. Thank you for sharing the knowledge and helping my mood.

[iamovementme]

"One good thing about music, is when it hits, you feel no pain" - Bob Marley and the Wailers

[A.I.Remixed]

So Dopamine doesn't create or cause pleasure, it communicates pleasure from the body to the brain, so we as the person can interpret what is going on. Wow. I never thought about it that way.

[ebrock]

The concept of using music to get out of your head I got a personal antidote.. in the army always struggled qualifying at the range I did but just okay. Then one qualifying I decided to try to get my head out of it and just let muscle memory work. I started to sing a song in my head and I jumped from barely qualifying to shooting expert.. I wasn't overthinking it...

[ufukkeles]

"But the sun calls them Endegenous Spots" briliant man just briliant

[CheeseWyrm]

This discussion recalled for me the value of 'mind-wandering' in related concepts:
1. "A bored mind is a creative mind". It has been found that allowing (& appreciating the value thereof) phases of boredom allows the mind-wandering involved in creativity and problem-solving. Therefore, day-dreaming should *not* be off-handedly admonished, but rather diverted into productive pursuits;
2. Think of those times when you forget a word/name/concept that you were about to express ... "Oh, it's on the tip of my tongue! I just can't grasp it!". A common advice that often helps here is "Stop focussing on it, and it will come to you";
3. *Ear-worms* Songs that you frustratingly can't get out of your head! (This is why advertising jingles are a thing). I have heard that you can resolve this by either listening & singing along to another song you like, OR singing the song to its completion (even just in your imagination). I'm not so sure these methods work that often for me...

[ShawnRitch]

I am amazed at how articulate and well mannered, Daniel Levitin is. A true master on the art of conversation and communication.

[patrickstromann]

I KNEW it. I always had the suspicion that music, and ultimately "dance" (huge Dr. Evil air quotes), came before spoken words.

[dmarie]

Music does heal. It helped heal 20 years of chronic illnesses I had.

[Phil-ozxd]

Spectacular session with Dr. Levitin. Amazing.

[manolousi]

Great topic. This is a gem on Youtube. From personal experience I can say that my patients always remember the song they listened to before falling asleep for surgery. They are able to relax and create a powerful memory that never fades. They always choose the music. Great talk.

[Dementia]

Math is a universal language, why not music.