They Don't Want You Using These Encrypted Radios

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[briannaylor]

I have several fully working pairs of each of the above mentioned models masc radios, had them years & years, all programmed with my own keys & iv also deactivated the key erase & radio stun feature 👍 .. I also have a few pairs of HT600 transcrypt sets 👍 all new old stock demo radios that were never issued .. 👍

[tech-rich]

I love in the brochure how it says "MASC has no adverse effect on the performance of your radio equipment". I know Notts had issues with MASC and mostly used Clear mode (using ID bursts) on the general district channels, especially in the last few years before shutdown. The system only really worked well with a good solid signal, so in fringe areas the radios used to lose sync.

[Coalrollinfurry]

typically the only type of attack against these types of encryption systems is as follows: they utilize the mixed mode ability, basically encouraging users to switch to clear by dumping a key off of one radio or by attacking encrypted talkgroups. the system will then move to be in the clear to continue supporting the radio that has dumped its key. on project 25 systems the key can be dumped by loss of power to an ht. or removal of the hts battery. but this is also only taking into account a type of system that could operate in the clear, by user selectability. which is not always the case. it can also just be a fully encrypted talkgroup. with OTAR this type of attack has been reduced. if a radio looses its key for whatever reason it can simply be tended to wirelessly by the system admin and tech. that was a different story in the keyloader era which is i believe the way these hts mentioned would be keyloaded. an expensive, and cumbersome process requiring each radio unit to present themselves to a tech.

[Eken-Eken]

Hi Lewis, Nice vid. here in NL its forbidden to use encryption for normal ham communication. The exception to this is is repeater or beacon control where it is encouraged to do so for obvious reasons.
Sad side not, this is the second of your video's that didn't make it in my notifications. I suspect the reason on this one is cause of the subject.

[wtrbrowser]

Masc was never cracked. However it was easy to force them into clear mode. I still have a pair of ht600e with masc.

[acf]

The government won't let you use a walkie talkie with a form of voice scrambling that absolutely can be broken without too much effort, and yet they are content to allow you to talk on a phone which uses AES-256 encryption.

[AurumUsagi]

That explains why the mercenaries in Die Hard 2 were above the law, even though the real Kenwood TH-45ATs they used don't have MASC. Then again, they needed a plot device.

[ocsrc]

The Motorola radios have AES256 bit encryption, that has 2 keys that one is"public" the other is entered by you, and it can not be cracked
This is really awesome when you use a digital Motorola radio
No one, not even the government, can hear it. The bits are just garbled data to anyone without the "key"
OTAR is used to delete a radio or reprogram a radio on or off the network

It is complicated, but really great if you are the one who owns the network

If you couple a simple analog simplex frequency with a DTMF controller to turn on and off your digital encrypted Network you can use a simple analog radio and activate your digital system and it will begin transmitting its control frequency and your digital radios will see it and spring to life and ask for your login and password and you can quickly log on to the digital system and communicate over the digital system and then shut down the digital system using your analog radio and this limits the time that the digital system is on the air and makes it very hard to pinpoint especially if you are mobile and the networks control system is mobile

If you have multiple people and one of them has a van that has the digital radio repeater then it becomes almost impossible to find it

And you can use simple handhelds that are encrypted for simplex communication but when you have more than a few people needing to all communicate encrypted you really should have a network utilizing multiple frequencies and unlike systems that are set up according to all of the rules a system like this you can program in any frequencies you like especially out of band frequencies which makes it very hard to locate what frequencies you're using especially if you have the frequencies deleted from the data stream so that the control system sends just the channel That the radios need to tune to not the frequency

All of the non-military systems that I've seen transmit frequencies in addition to the channel so you can use just the control channel and be able to map the entire system and no exactly what radio is on what frequency and what slot on the frequency they are using and even when they go into talk around simplex mode the control system maps where they are so you can change frequencies to the simplex frequency they are using and monitor their communications that way

The radios that have been coming out of China have allowed easy access into the 60 to 88 MHz range, as well as the 174 to 240 range
And for quite a while I've seen the 350 megahertz to 520 megahertz radios but now I just saw the 250 to 400 MHz radios and the 400 to 660 megahertz radios

Since the 525 MHz to 600 MHz is still used for UHF television here in the United States and 600 to 700 MHz is now used by 5G cellular phones there shouldn't be anyone transmitting up in those ranges and it is doubtful that anyone is going to be looking for communications from two-way radios up in those frequencies

As long as you don't interfere with TV stations in your area you can use those ranges to have a private Network that isn't going to bother anybody and that no one would be looking for in their normal scanning

I'm really surprised that those radios are being sold and I've even seen radios that transmit from 125 to 136 MHz and I'm guessing their FM even though the aircraft band is AM

I believe there are FM to a radios that are used in the 130s for aircraft operations and maintenance that doesn't need to talk to aircraft

I think that's why they make these

And I haven't seen one myself but I am interested to know if they can pick up the am transmissions from the airports and airplanes

I doubt it because the type of signal is so different that even if it could pick it up it's probably going to be pretty garbled

[christopherblackmur]

Of course they don't - amongst many reasons, upwards of 90% of UK user services aren't legally permitted to use any kind of high level encryption systems under their specific licenses. In fact, almost all, domestic/hobby level user services aren't permitted to use ANY scrambling or otherwise signal/modulation methods that will obscure or encrypt communication - in fact, the general public aren't even legally permitted to use any encryption or obscuring technology on telecoms systems either. Note, regarding GSM/UTMS and non cellular legal radio telephony, encoding digitally as an integral part of the communication protocol for modulation is permitted but it's not classified as high level and isn't secure.

So, unless you've specific NOV on a radio license to permit it (government agencies have it at high and medium levels of complexity, as do some Tetra users at a fundamental medium level type level over and above the regular digital encoding), then you're automatically in breached of the license and the overall encompassing UK radio usage regs if you do - which effectively invalidates your license.

In the ham world, even we're not permitted to use the non-regular encryption (AES) on many DMR radios and (subject to NOV) nor are 446 DMR users. In fact, according to the strict license wording, hams aren't allowed to use anything that obfuscates or encrypts communication - we only get to use Digital Voice systems like DMR & P25 reprogrammed to legally usable allocations under a general issue NOV (one that's not a request able one, but a non-integrated general extension to the license).

DSTAR & YSF were on actual ham market gear and it was mostly for those systems we got the gen NOV, DMR usage exploiting it was pretty much additional.

So it's a matter of known established record, going way on back, that they dont want us using encrypted radio tech at all, but under some provisions, some licenses can have limited NOV for encryption for specific legitimate purposes.

On user services which were entirely created around analogue voice modulation (such as CB), no form of embedded non voice content is actually legal to send - encrypted or non-encrypted tunnelled over typically NBFM in most such user services cases. That's why CTCSS isn't permitted on CB, but is permitted on PMR446 because it's integral to the whole service. So, even old time idents such as K-Tone and 'roger beeps' weren't actually legally used on CB. That said, CB 'Roger beeps' were ass ways round, true roger beeps preceded the voice traffic as an alert. A K-tone was the proper communication (of the days) EOT indicator.

So aside from highlighting the MASC system and it being retrofit capable or factory fit to some commercial gear, nothing to see and nothing new or secretive or even obscure and unknown to the public really if you actually are a person who takes interest in emerging radio tech as some of us are.

[carlospulpo]

Interesting video, I am willing to bet a modern computer could break the encryption by gathering the band slices and re-arranging them to plot the audio curve of the transmission. Like a broken puzzle. The key space of the code is also very likely reduced from the prime encryption key down to a useable key in the memory that is smaller in bit length. Having brute forced the key for a particular channel/talk group then you can listen away.

Modern digital systems with AES/DES + digital voice processing such as CELP could not be brute forced in this way since it's not simple time domain encryption.

[danielscotcher]

Awesome video 👌 keep this type of video coming. Also the end music is PUMPING!!! 😏

[phillipstracner]

Well the government don't want us doing a lot of things. But oh well.

[DonzLockz]

Brilliant video.... again. I love the history and technology put into a great video. Thnx buddy.🍺👍

[richardmillican]

Kind of a modern version of Adolf 's freaky typewriter thingy... the enigma machine? Another interesting video Lewis!

[petenikolic]

And people try to say we do not live in a police state . people need to wake up

[raymondmartin]

Here in the US 🇺🇸, hams can't use any encryption on our radios.
I found out that here the Nashua, NH
police are encrypted, so we can't listen,
among others, to the police here.

[gfvt]

Like nearly every other responder here I have a handful of MASC equipped HT600s, and yes, you can decipher the odd syllable of traffic.

[baronedipiemonte]

On those radios that can be "killed, stunned, revived" over the air, doesn't that depend on whether they are in range of the signal, or turned on when the signal is transmitted ?

I just purchased a Baofeng P10UV and one of the menu items (which is NOT explained) is FHSS Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum. This is an analog HT. I sort of tested it transmitting with the FHSS turned on. It won't "hear" another radio, but the the other radio with no CTCSS or DCS WILL hear it - though kinda scratchy. About a decade ago I recall Anytone marketing an HT called the Terminator which supposedly DID have working FHSS to give a fairly decent degree of encryption. Enjoyed the program !

[uwygjhsh]

This system definitely can be monitored, especially with AI. It is easier to break the encryption within days instead of many years of the message.

[blpblp-tjux]

coool....radios AND drum n bass...i can dig it