Word of Faith Scriptures Exposed - Reviewing Prooftexts

[oneknb]

While in the mission field isolated in the bush of Africa in 2012, I was having a pity party (depressed missing my kids in USA). But when I went to go lay down to rest, the Lord told me to receive 2 village women at my gate. Well, long and short of it, I had absolutely no "faith" stance of my own, I was weak and depleted myself; however, those ladies requested I go pray for one's daughter who was on her deathbed (hadn't eaten for days, not speaking, not awakening). My interpreter and I went and I obeyed the promptings of the Spirit and the woman awoke and spoke... NOT anything to do with MY faith level or religious prowess; I simply obeyed God and saw the power of HIS Name affect a woman at HIS time. That cured me of all the hyper activity and faulty beliefs by which I previously had been too often disappointed.

[ILovePs]

I am really looking forward to this broadcast. I was born again over 45 years ago into this sect of Christianity. And though I am truly grateful that it compelled me to search the scriptures, memorize them, pray them, and learn about the Lord through them. I am also regretful that I was also oftentimes taught to misappropriate many of them for self-centered desires and passions, which tended to make me prideful because I knew how to get what I wanted from God. I repented of that years ago, while thankfully holding on to the love of His Word. I hope that Dr. Stenhammar focuses some time on explaining the context of the scripture passage that seems to be the foundation upon which word and faith teaching is based--that being Mark 11:22, 23 and its related cross-referenced fig tree, mulberry tree and mountain moving scriptures.

[redrider]

This is so good. I was taught to understand my authority, implying that ppl can do miracles without realizing that it’s in accordance to our relationship to Jesus. So if I just know who “I” am then I should see miracles. It’s not about me but about Him. ❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥

[e.m.]

As someone who left the word of faith church almost 20 years ago, I'm super excited for this!

[leahwilliams]

Faith is surrendering my will to what God determines is good for me. My faith is in God and the relationship he has with me.

[rebeccamatteson]

This is so good as I find myself needing to disentangle from WoF assumptions/interpretations. It’s not all wrong. So I appreciate this perspective from Continuationists.

[DarylWood-bihb]

As a 1980 Rhema graduate, I'll offer several thoughts. First, I loved your emphasis on faith being birthed out of a place of relationship with the Father. This fundamental and essential truth does seem to be deficient (or even nonexistent, in some instances) in the Word of Faith movement, at large. I wish to build on a point that you guys were touching. As a son of my Father, submitted to Him, yielded to, and walking in the light and in the truth to the extent that He has made it known to me, He has delegated a great deal of authority and freedom to me. This liberty gives me great boldness to declare things that many would suppose to be presumptuous. But, to me this flows out of my understanding of what Jesus said about speaking to the mountain to be cast into the sea, and it obeying me. I'm His son, representing Him, and therefore I am preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, which involves His manifest presence now.

[EllenSmyth]

Heb 11:3. I do not take it that it was God's faith that created the universe but rather our faith that we UNDERSTAND that he did create the universe. "By faith we understand."

[Ruby-wise]

TY. It’s so refreshing to hear/see someone who has knows that whole “ faith” system; is honest and transparent and has broken free and is willing to speak out!

[sharonmcneill]

That was very good! It really gave me a lot to think about. As someone who has become reformed in my thinking and in my theology, I am enjoying the place where the Lord has brought me. I am experiencing and expanding outside the box, so to speak, and allowing myself to look more closely into things I may have considered to be heretical not all that long ago. Very thankful to have found your channel. I enjoy your messages very much!

[katieevie]

Thank you thank you thank you remnant for doing WOF. I was born again in a WoF church, the pastor was a fabulous preacher, a humble godly man. But he was greatly influenced by WOF. Sadly the spirit of fear that was brought up in this discussion, is something that I experienced early on when around my friends who were WOF. I quickly discerned it was no different to the folk religions and superstitions I had experienced before. The saddest bit about WOF community is the lack of authenticity, being honest about difficulties was an obstacle to ‘faith’.

[lmorter]

Only God has the power to create something by His Word. We can't speak something into existence. However, the tongue does have the power to speak life which is goodness, godliness, holiness. It can also speak the opposite, death, which is evil, ungodliness, unholiness.
I think the meaning of this verse has been blown away out of proportion.

[pembertonjones]

You command what you've been given authority over by God and you pray (ask) for things you have not been given authority over by God.

[brittjudd]

Great dialogue! I always appreciate Dr. Stenhammer’s point of view and scholarly work coming from the inside of the movement and correcting his theological stance. It takes a lot of courage to speak out against errors and abuses of something you were once completely sold out to.

[oneknb]

I appreciated the discussion on WoF teaching. Though I was born-again via a Foursquare Church family when I was 20yo, it wasn't until decades later that I got off the rollercoaster of faith teachings within it. There was a stance of "victorious Christian", "if you have enough faith", "if you tithe and obey..."; well, having had all my ducks in a row to the best of my earnest, genuine abilities, nonetheless I suffered what could be termed a "Job experience" -- even more than once! Yet, due to the dynamic reality of God's saving grace in my life having taken me out of darkness into His marvelous light initially, my hope and trust continued to be in God being God.

[withorwithoutu]

..."and these signs will follow those who believe, they will lay hands on the sick and they will recover."

[MariaWahlfeldt]

Great program! Always a blessing to listen to knowledgable Mikael Stenhammar.

[righteousrebelmedia]

We must remember…. Just because people abuse scripture, doesn’t mean you throw all teachings and scripture surrounding the subject.

[Marcus-xv]

Amazing show, interesting topic and a great preacher and theologian Stenhammar! at Liberating faith

[Leadeshipcoach]

First let me say I appreciate this discussion.

With that said. I just listened to the explanation of Matthew 17:20….and I found it wanting. Now let me say I am not word of faith…I was word of faith for the first 10 years of my Christian life and as I. began to study the history, languages and culture of scripture I move completely away from word of faith.

With that said to interpret the Matthew 17 passage and faith as "I believe and trust in Jesus …no matter the outcome’ is the meaning of faith…that goes against what Jesus himself said in this context.

In vs. 19 the disciples ask "why could we not cast it out" - the disciple were looking for a specific outcome…to cast out the spirit.

Jesus answer as to why they could not cast out the spirit is " Because of your unbelief". In context Jesus tells them that the reason the outcome was denied was because of their lack of faith/unbelief. Specifically their lack of faith denied them the outcome expected. Jesus did not say "well it’s okay fellas-as long as you trust no matter the outcome you’re good"

Again I don’t hold to word of faith theology -but the explanation given here ignores the context of what Jesus says.

Clearly based on Jesus words, they could not achieve the outcome desired (casting out the demons, which was part of what Jesus sent them out to do) because of the lack of faith/unbelief on the part of the disciples.