Navigating Belief, Skepticism, and the Afterlife | Alex O'Connor @CosmicSkeptic | EP 451

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down in-person with philosophical-oriented YouTuber and podcaster Alex O’Connor. They discuss the proper use of skepticism, the true meaning of belief and prayer, the mythological and historical nature of the Bible, the level-of-analysis problem, and the potential for the use of AI to examine epistemology.

Alex O'Connor is a philosophy-oriented YouTuber, podcaster, and public speaker with over 750,000 subscribers on YouTube. He graduated in 2021 from St. John's College, Oxford University, with a BA in philosophy and theology. In 2023, he launched the “Within Reason” podcast, which has featured guests including Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Slavoj Žižek, Neil deGrasse Tyson, and Rory Stewart, amongst others. He has debated issues of religion, ethics, and politics with figures including Ben Shapiro, Michael Knowles, Douglas Murray, and Piers Morgan.

This episode was recorded on May 17th, 2024

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(0:00) Coming up
(0:46) Intro
(2:47) Skepticism should be in the service of something
(5:35) Intellectual victory versus fruitful conversation
(9:31) Clarifying the term “belief” in it’s religious and mundane context
(13:54) God as an orientation toward the highest value and the regress issue
(15:50) Understanding God conceptually; is he “real” in the material sense as an agential being?
(18:50) The evolution of the physicality of God; Eliade on Nietzsche’s “death of God”
(20:20) “Profound religious account is bottomless;” the mythological and historical Jesus
(28:43) Where Dawkins and Peterson might just agree
(31:40) Can falsehoods help you survive?
(35:20) The impossibility of reducing the Biblical corpus to a reassuring banality
(45:25) God as the ultimate fictional character and how fiction and fact intertwine
(49:01) Possession, perception, and the level-of-analysis problem
(55:34) Elvis Presley’s guitar; hierarchical context is separate from the apprehension of the object
(58:18) The inverse correlation between the specificity of an answer and the importance of the question
(1:02:14) The physicality of the resurrection; the canonical versus the Gnostic tradition
(1:05:55) The Testimony of Truth; was Christ the serpent in the Garden?
(1:14:20) Computational epistemology: a new field of religious study?
(1:22:43) Can ideology be good? Proper interpretation and the cosmic order
(1:29:00) Jesus and the Quran; the pathology of mythologization
(1:35:24) “If your aim is upward then God is with you;” vicarious redemption and bearing your cross
(1:38:17) Dr. Peterson on Hell and the afterlife
(1:48:15) What really forms the basis of Christian thinking and the responsibility it demands

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[CosmicSkeptic]

Thanks for this, Dr. Peterson. A thoroughly animating conversation!

[JohanJonasson]

"Sorry, I don't want to derail you from your tangent."

That's hilarious. Great conversation you two.

[andrewblack]

The best thing about this conversation is that it’s the oldest debate in the book.

It’s Plato vs Aristotle. Peterson represents Plato’s style of theological, spiritual and artistic thinking whereas O’Connor represents Aristotle’s scientific, logical and technological school of thought.

Such a great conversation between two extremely intelligent individuals.

[AlexWalkerSmith]

Alex has an unmatched mastery of using emotion-free logic while still maintaining a human level of personability.

[JoshYng]

This is the most detailed and well-explained version of Peterson’s position on God. Finally, thank you Alex

[simpleselfhelp]

Alex has this great balance between listening to try to understand and sharing his own view (also when that requires interrupting Jordan sometimes)

[spencercarter]

This is THE definition of a proper argument we all need to aspire to... No one-upmanship... No ego... No shouting or arguing or name calling... Just two people trying to better their understanding.

[lucacolodetti]

Man, I am just grateful that I spent all these years learning English. What a privilege it is to be able hear and understand this conversation

[splattek]

The fact that Alex is only 25 years old is shocking to me. Fascinated to see where he'll be when he's 40 or 50.

[burmdog]

A masterclass on how to speak with Jordan Peterson. You really did your homework and forced clarity from him because of it. I think both Alex and Jordan should be pleased with the outcome of the talk.

[ehqtor]

I'm sorry but in my uneducated opinion, Peterson is not trying to "hit the target square". He is widening and abstracting the definition of the target so he never missed. Have never seen such gymnastics for a straight up question.

[gilsonrocks]

I’m a Christian who appreciates Alex’s line of questioning and explanation here. Jordan seems to know what his religious audience is asking and still refuses to answer their questions on their terms. Alex does a good job of pressing Peterson on this.

[VegasOriginal]

Alex asking Jordan the proper questions we Christians have wanted to ask him forever. Cheers to you both!

[FloridaMan]

Big kudos to Alex for listening to Jordan jump around the question for 45 mins without growing impatient

[chrisaxis]

It seems like Alex is Jordan's therapist in this conversation

[Tristangames]

You do not realise how long I have waited for this!

[touchoflight]

I’m a Christian but I thoroughly enjoy listening to Alex. He articulates his ideas so clearly it’s a pleasure to listen to

[angloortho]

The evasion on the "did it really happen" issue is truly mind-numbing

[milesgordon]

I wish Peterson would let the guy complete his sentences

[Cblazer]

Alex was absolutely brilliant in asking direct and clarifying questions to Jordan’s beliefs. It’s something I’ve been begging people to do for years now. It helped me understand Jordan so much more and what he believes and doesn’t believe.