New or old DACS

Is it worth investing in a new DAC?

[DN]

It ain't that simple. Many high end Dacs are r2r ladder dacs. But you are going to pay for them. A simple Sigma Delta DAC may easily match them for detail extraction but many have a digital sound to them, les natural than what a good ladder dac can do.

[ianjohnhorwood]

I definitely do not agree with assessment. The newer AKM or ESS dac chips for example etc, do not possess higher resolution in sound quality, for resolution, detail, dynamics, with naturalness . Burr browns 24/192 1792a is an excellent dac if it implemented electronically the right and proper way. None of the newer AKM, or ESS dacs etc, bring better sound quality with higher resolution quality including the naturalness of sound that is able to better a properly implemented twin burr browns arrangement 1792a 24/192 dac at all . The new Dacs have not improved sound quality, the only thing that can be done to improve dac sound quality is how it has been properly implemented in the electronic circuit, and that is the utter truth . PAUL you should be ashamed of yourself, you don't know what you are talking about, or you are just telling plain porkie LIE, and that is the utter truth .

[richardt]

If Robert is talking about a Denon SACD player (rather than an amp, he doesn't say) then the Denon SACD player will not output the SACD layer via coaxial, so if the Burr Brown1792 is the built-in DAC then that's what he should use. I also don't agree with a generalisation that Delta-Sigma (DS) chips are better than R2R ladder DACS. And just finally, the Burr Brown PCM1792, 24bit / 192kHz converter is a brilliant DAC - no need to upgrade anything.

[gotham]

Is Paul simply unaware of the new high resolution capable ladder DACs from companies like Denafrips and Holo Audio, or does he simply choose to pretend they don’t exist?

[digggerrjones]

BB 1792 *is* delta sigma!
Higher bit and sampling rates *do not* always sound better!!
Robert should just keep the Denon and enjoy the music!!!

[andrewjackson]

I had someone ask me why go to this effort when mp3 is such higher quality. I asked what they were using, well, their phone. So you think you're getting high quality sound with a streamer, dac and amp built into your phone? Yep, I'm sure that blows away my system. Sad thing is they'd think it actually sounds better cause they're programmed to think that is what music is supposed to sound like.

[ianwilliams]

"Time to upgrade - yes" - Perhaps not. Just do some listening, weigh up the cost / benefits (if any). - Save your money, invest in your life and experiences, move to France maybe!

[elitetrader]

The chip is the least important part. The digital filters, power supply, analog output stage, and chassis build (for mechanical isolation) are far more important.

[joshua]

I upgraded to a Holo May KTE DAC this year.
I'll prolly never go back to sigma-delta.
Also, the effective noise floor in even very high end gear is at 19 or 20 bit depth. Upsampling at the source to 20 bits puts all the noise of the digital side in the 20th bit, and leaves 19 bits for all the good stuff (assuming your gear is good enough).

[ptg]

Sadly, this is probably one of Paul's weakest videos.... he never mentioned about HOW exactly one attaches an SACD player to play DSD layer to an external DAC and its challenges...I think I2S is the way to go but is riddled with compatibility issues between brands due to lack of pin out standardization of I2S connections like HDMI, Ethernet ? Plus there are not that many SACD players with I2S outputs.. PAUL ????

[mattikra]

The PCM1972 is a Delta Sigma DAC, not a ladder DAC.

[michaelogrady]

Great article on DAC's, but it won't work with Hi-Fi SACD players as the only output cd quality digitally, so Robert should not invest in an off board dac. Universal units with HDMI can be converted with audio extractors, but the result is mixed. So a DAC with an Hi-Fi SACD player, won't work, or hdmi from universal players is mediocre at best. There is a transport recently available, perhaps from PS Audio, but it's silly money.

[terryjefferylee]

I notice on the PS Audio web site the new Direct Stream DAC is available but how much does it cost and can it be purchased outside of the USA ie Australia?
Currently I have a ladder DAC and it sounds wonderful, better than the chip-based DACS it replaced. Not sure whether the DSD root is better or not. Why would it be when chips are just multiple resisters anyway. (correct me if I'm wrong)

[kevingest]

I prefer the sound of the analog out of my Rotel RCD-950 from the mid 90s over running the coax to either my Schiit Modi or my Cambridge DAC magic. I attribute that to the Rotel having R2R rather than a delta sigma DAC. Of course the difference is subtle enough that it may be in my head, which is the more likely explanation.

[dibyamartandasamanta]

1792 are Sigma Delta and 24bit, early Sigma delta

[ZaklanaCeljadd]

PCM63P eats delta sigma buzzers, easy :)

[JohnDoe-npzk]

What a load of garbage. While DACs have sort of come a long way, the pcm1792 with hdcd has delta sigma plus 8x oversampling plus hdcd. Your lame non research is lame. The musicality was the entire point and my Rotel RCD1070 just sounds good.

[hoobsgroove]

Any advice on phone audio, I bought a new phone pixel and sound quality through the dongle is dreadful... I'm getting artifax, the first dongle was ridiculous it was an apple one very low output muffled no top end and the other day I bought a Samsung dongle the outputs is ok and it's clear but I keep getting clicking with echo, , noises on one channel only on note and music but not speech, not sure if it's the phone or the dongle. I have a week to take the phone back! before I can't! Why oh why did they do away with the 3.5 mm jack just awful. Any ideas, I was wondering if you can access the DAC IC from a app??

[odizcvw]

All true in general. Actually, I thought this would be an ideal time to mention that while most DACs are obsolete by the time you plug them in, the Direct Stream gets updates to stay current. Actually, a really good differentiator.
Even though PCM1792, 4 are actually delta sigma, this video got my interest to read how delta sigma works.
BTW to the OP. Lot's of people prefer a well implemented PCM1794 to current day DACs. So be sure you are making an improvement to your ear before you dump the old one.

[doosworld]

Have cherished Paul for many years for his knowledge and outstanding ability to upkeep PS as a top competitor in the audio game. When it comes to DACS, I will contend that Paul is pulling things out of thin air and has very little knowledge in that area. Same goes for a lot of us older guys. PS audio has some excellent designers helping in the field of DACS. I have used some of PS Audios newest DACs and the oldest as well. To be clear there is no big difference in sound using an older DAC compared to new. If it sounded good then, it’s likely to sound good now too; upgrade something else and keep the dac you enjoy.