Do doctors need degrees?

From September, tens of thousands of NHS doctors and nurses could be trained via apprenticeships. It's part of a plan to tackle huge staff shortages in the NHS

#nhs #doctor #nurse #uk #health

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[ChannelNews]

Would you want to see a doctor without a degree?

[MegaZayd]

Man its almost like the staff shirtage is a pay and funding problem not a training one

[frankoboy]

What is your source?
This is a ludicrous idea. Not to mention a total slap in the face to current medical students on a 5 year degree and paying for it. Most primary medical qualifications require 3 years of theory with some clinical elements then 2 years purely on the wards at Uni before FY1 posts. How else could all the physiology/pathology, anatomy, biochem and ethics be taught. A better idea would be to scrap med student tuition fees, increase uni places and junior hrly rates…if they truly want to address long term staff retention issues. I don’t envisage the GMC ever agreeing to this.

[Musicienne-DAB]

This just demonstrates what's wrong with our country. We're always bringing standards down to plug holes and passing this off as making things more "accessible". I am no friend of the failed university expension disaster, but a medical degree is absolutely necessary to become a doctor.

[wasssup]

I don’t care about degrees anymore unless… it’s for lawyers, doctors, specialists, engineers, architects etc… use some common sense people!

[chrisd]

Across the NHS and social care there are 260, 000 job vacancies. In hospitality there are 300, 000 vacancies. In farming and food processing there are 150, 000 unfilled jobs. It's apparent that training isn't the issue here in the UK.

[kirah]

Christ, NHS doctors are already paid in peanuts - what will the apprentices get?

[darcy]

NHS needs to pay for University with 5 year commitment to work for the NHS. The idea of on the job training to become a doctor is crazy and dangerous. They need the foundational education before they have their residency.

[brambles]

We're already seeing receptionists and nurses instead of GP's so why not ?

[tatienouorest]

Wait wait wait
So thousands of students are denied entry into med school every year, thousands of doctors are forced to sit the PLAB

But they’d rather rely on apprenticeship?
Why not just take all those IMGs who apply every year and have them do the paid apprenticeship before giving them full licences?

[VelvetMetrolink]

That's the problem with the race to the bottom. You might win.

[julianshepherd]

Sounds like a whacky NHS England idea to me.

[kitfagan]

Considering the intensity those 5 year medical degrees have just to get a bare minimum of knowledge for being a junior, the apprenticeship plan comes off as a thoughtless memo from a minister. Two of those 5 years are mostly on the job and even from the first year med students work on cadavers and have some practical experiences. Besides where is the training capacity? What extra time will doctors and nurses on their already stretched shifts to look after an apprentice? What work can an apprentice actually do without full time training before getting hands on with patients?

Instead of bumping pay to keep professionals in the job, investment in training facilities to increase placements, waiving tuition fees on medical students (if not all together) and kick out the swamp of PFI contracts and consultants that suck the NHS dry, we're stuck with this in-actionable plan.

[just_chris]

Really it depends on what else is needed and what the "Dr" is allowed to do. If this is a method for an advanced paramedic to transition into a hospital setting where they work in an emergency department without going back to university then ok. If this is just a way to produce replacements for junior doctors but with no possibility of career progression then I'm less keen.

[grainnemcdonagh]

This is false news. Completely clickbate!!! The NHS medical degree apprenticeships being offered are 7 years long. Involving a FIVE year medical degree. That is exactly the same as via the normal route. These apprentices will have to undergo the same training and exams as other medical students. However they will be doing jobs such as being porters/admin roles WHILST at full time university. This is why they're being paid!!!! Do your flippin research!

[xena]

No, I wouldn't. That's an absurd idea.

[AsclepiasCorridor]

There’s such a staff shortage because all the doctors are moving to Australia. You get paid around three times more and working conditions are better (not great, but better). Our emergency departments are packed full of British doctors.

As a doctor myself I tried to get my registration in the UK. So ridiculously difficult, it’s like they’re trying to discourage us from doing so. Maybe make the 2 year process a little streamlined and you’ll get some more doctors.

[EBMJ]

In university you have you learn 4 years of women’s right and gender theories before actually studying medicine. So this is actually a very effective initiative. I think it will be a success.

[lightweightben]

Just let anyone register as a doctor without training. Worked for Dr Nick!

[roxannef]

I'd be ok with seeing an apprenticeship doctor if I knew already what was wrong with me like ear infection, etc and I would only let them treat me an adult who could articulate what's wrong. Low stakes stuff