Destiny 2 Lore - Did Maya hear The Winnower in the Veil? Who told her its name?

[crypticzer]

Man I feel soo bad for Ghost now. He was one of the ones who was connected with the Veil, and he said it was hell. That he would have rather died by being shot than experience it again.

How bad is it?

[serinahighcomasi]

The whispers in the wall, if you will

[majr_tm]

I just love when Destiny dips its toes in cosmic horror

[shadowkingCZ]

I do not think the Veil is winnower. I think the Veil is the physical manifestation of the Gardener's memories. The Light and Dark used to be one. But the gardener and Winnower were not. I think the Gardener used to be being of Both light and Dark. As was the winnower. But after entering into our universe the Winnower remained formless and the Gardener made a form. The Traveler. But then, not wanting to remember (As we see implied in the Final shape lore) It created a physical outlet into witch it funneled all its memories and all its Darkness, thus creating the Veil. This would mean that the traveler is not becoming something new now, but its returning to its original form, which could be an interesting Avenue for the story to go. And for some proof, just ask yourself, why would there be a Physical manifestation of the Darkness, if it's domain in the mental and psychic. The light's domain is the physical. And of course this would mean the Winnower could technically be an omnipresent watcher. Which fits into the way it talks about things.

[QuestLogging]

Ever since Osiris said that the "Veil *whispers* an electromagnetic language that *resonates* with our minds" in Wish, it's made me look at so much stuff in a totally different light.

"But Darkness, I hardly know it. Apart from the Witness, what is it? Doesn't have a friendly hand at the helm. Seems to me more like a crowd of folks whispering while you fight for your life. The audience or the mob. Could go your way if you impress them, if the mood flows the right way. Might not lift a finger for you. Wouldn't want to depend on 'em either way." (Bird in the Hand, Chirality)

[dustinrotach]

The Veil looks like it could've been cut in half, is there a chance the other half is the biological contents of the Traveler?

[markricheard]

Honestly i don’t think the Winnower is a villian nor our next main threat. Bungie said the Light and Dark Saga is over, they want to explore other areas of the world and Lore. The Winnower being like the Witness but bigger and scarier would be making the same mistake the MCU recently made with Kang the Conqueror. If the next main villain is just the same thing but bigger, not better, people won’t care.

The notion of the Winnower being a villain was also invented by the Witness. We now know that the Unveiling Lore book was basically Truth to Power written by the Witness. Byf seems to really desperately want the Winnower to be our next big villain but I fail to see how that wouldn’t just be retreading old ground. The Light and Dark Saga is finished…then we just do it again? Obviously Paracausal elements are still important and will still play a role, just not like this. The first time the Winnower was described as a villain was the Witness saying so through Unveiling, and it said it does not follow its orders, so of course it sees it as a villain. The Gardener and Winnower are spectators. That “be seeing you” is definitely a red herring.

However, I do think the Veil is the Winnower body or Vessel, like the Traveler is for the Gardener.

Oh and here’s the skip for the Ad: 10:52

[xtommy]

I also think its interesting that Calus said he met something before that made him want to watch the end, then the witness changed him later as a disciple. So what did he originally meet?

[reaperslimbo]

I just thought of this. During the Red War, we lost our light. We then went to the shard of the Traveler to get it back, guided by a bird of light (thr traveler telling us to go there). But if the shard was poisoned by darkness and we used the shard to gain our light back, doesnt that explain why we can use both Light and Darkness. Since we recovered our light but there was some Darkness mixed in.

[BrazarB]

Truly don't understand why the Winnower would be the villain, there's no entity inside the Traveler, so why would there be one inside the Veil? & Isn't it's whole shtick is that it *doesn't* get involved because it thinks it'll naturally win? The only possible way I see us battling it, is through philosophy, not as an actual villain figure within the world. & I see it most likely it being the Veil itself

I also think it's wrong to assume the Winnower was behind events such as K1, when it directly relates to the Witness, the time frame matches with it aswell (theres even scribles of Pyramids in Shadowkeeps CE). While the Winnower can be pinned to *some* events, it shouldn't rule out the Witness being the cause aswell, there's lore in D1 specifically Taken lore, that ties in very well to how the Witness/Precursor's speak, with the use of "knife" terminology aswell as the use of certain brackets seen in Tessellation & Entelechy.

The war of Light & Dark ended with the Witness, the Winnower as a villain would invalidate that, "the Darkness" has been so back & forth narratively on who/what it is

[markricheard]

This Episodes story so far:
Maya Sundaresh: “We don’t have Democracy or Universal Human Rights anymore?! This sucks! Let’s bring back scientific research and stop cowering behind walls, have a Second Golden Age like Zavala said but actually do it, and grant the Vex Sentience so they can help us as equals!”

The Vanguard which rules as a Military Junta: “No.”

The Playerbase: “Maya looks cool, but oh no! She has little red bits on her face! Her design is le ruined!! Everyone knows character designs can strictly only have two colors! And why does she have Lakshmis face?! Bungie is so lazy and certainly doesn’t have any story reason for her being an amalgamation of Vex and Exo technology! As there definitely isn’t Vex Exo Hybrids in the Episodes Reveal Trailer!”

Also here a skip for todays ad: 10:52

[darkone]

What about savathun's memories, she said "it wasn't the dark, just something that wears it like a cloak".

[samgarnham]

So the cut scene at the end of shadowkeep. When we wake up in the black garden and are greeted by ourselves. How confident are we that is the winnower. Whispering to us in our own voice.

[ronaldmayorga]

Can I just say that an Emperor Raven Raid Boss in the future would be FUCKING SICK. It would literally be the largest Boss in the history of Destiny

[garrettviewegh]

The Witness, was basically our Thanos, and who does Thanos have a deep crush on? Death. Though the Witness was no simp. It merely desired purpose, to prove its own logic correct. Its logic, is different to that of the Winnower. Which seems to be more akin to the Hive’s Sword Logic. We took out his king, but the Winnower may still have many pawns to play. Even the Witch Queen may yet be unknowingly used by him. But, unlike the Witness, the Winnower seems unnervingly… calm. He’s seen the game play out the same way across time and space: survival until the last one standing is the winner. He’s just giving us fuel for the fire. Sitting back and watching the show unfold from his side of the board.

[smilinrylan]

I may be off here, but it almost sounds like the Veil is the knife, and that on the other end holding it is the Winnower. But the Traveler appears to actually be the Gardener, or just the physical manifestation of each. But if the Veil and Traveler are linked, and the Winnower is still seperated, that has to mean that the Veil is just a window, vs the Traveler being the physical incarnation of the Gardener.

Just a thought but we know that the Traveler is fighting an infection, the puss inside, the lava, maybe the veil, the knife, which carries the darkness, which is the infection, and the veil is just that, a conduit, vs the Traveler actually being the Gardner.

[garrettviewegh]

According to what I’ve read on the lore, I see the Gardner and Winnower as siblings. Two, once whole, now separate. A sister and brother that played their game in the Garden, until they had their first disagreement. An argument so loud, the universe was made. One skunk back into the shadows, waiting to one day reunite with his sister. Knowing she would understand the futility of her “new rule of complexity”. While she, went out into the world. She didn’t want others to be forced the way her brother had. So for each one she uplifted, she did not offer guidance. She instead gave them the freedom to define destiny for themselves. Meanwhile her brother salved away, sharpening his first knife. Sharp, strong, he needed a weapon, it did not have to be loyal, just misguided in obedience. Following his will without knowing. And so it did, as it cut apart each world she mended and watered, his knife would cut it down. But, he knew it would break. Still, he knew his oldest knife breaking did not matter. Many more could be forged, manipulated with desire, after all, he just needed to sit and call them. He sat back, comfortable, confident. He would win again, right as he always was. He did not expect her to slip the board, all those years ago. But in the end, they would fall back to violence in the end. Peace, is death against his scythe.

[Asturjgm]

What gave me chills reading the ship's lore tab was how casual it was. So terrifyingly human. No doubt how someone could trust the whispers of such a thing if it sounds like a friend

[Sta_cotto]

Your voice acting for Chioma was amazing.

[AmyLovesOwO]

23:20 you did NOT just ignore that free fat heavy brick when your LMG had 23 ammo

I feel violated