Frantz Fanon, Stokely Carmichael, and the Roots of Anti-Zionism: Paul Berman

The conversation critiques the anti-Zionist movement's claim to moral authority, arguing that Zionism is not colonialism. It revisits Jewish history in Hebron to challenge the colonialist narrative about Israel. The influence of Frantz Fanon and the Algerian war on progressive views toward Israel is also discussed. Stokely Carmichael's shift from civil rights leader to adopting an anti-Zionist, anti-Semitic stance is highlighted, marking his intellectual and moral decline. The persistence of anti-Semitism on the left and the dangers of radicalism are examined, along with bad faith arguments used by anti-Zionists. The discussion concludes by noting the Hamas Charter's endorsement of slavery.

00:00 Two-phase career shift

00:13 Anti-Zionist sentiment persists

00:27 Moral prestige examined

01:33 Critiquing anti-Zionism conviction

03:31 Anti-colonialism argument challenged

07:25 Naïveté in historical perspective

09:28 Hebron's complex history

12:28 Fanaticism and protection issues

14:13 Mislabeling colonial narratives

17:10 Frantz Fanon perspectives

18:56 Constant Jewish presence

21:28 Sartre's influence noted

26:07 Sartre's 1967 stance

27:16 Fanon's hypothetical decision

27:44 Fanon's complex thoughts

30:37 Bad faith discussion

31:19 Black Consciousness focus

32:42 African struggles prioritized

34:41 Identity politics critique

36:07 Intersectionalism's blending issues

38:36 Ethiopian Jews' migration

40:27 Israel's diverse population

42:16 Settler colonialism debate

44:42 Historical memory importance

46:31 Anti-Zionism's larger narrative

51:18 Two-state solution advocacy

53:08 Carmichael's anti-Zionist stance

54:17 Tragic intellectual trajectory

54:45 Political left collapse

55:34 Student Nonviolent Coordinating

56:00 Civil Rights footsoldiers

57:06 Snick's leadership change

57:31 Anti-Zionist shift

58:11 Black Power slogan

59:08 Carmichael's departure

01:00:03 His legacy persists

01:01:10 Heidegger's antisemitism

01:05:57 Satre's bad faith arguments

01:07:44 Protest dissonance explored

01:11:27 Radicalism's seductive appeal

01:17:25 Movement's intellectual collapse

01:19:02 Protest history's judgment

01:19:58 Hamas Charter offensive

01:20:10 Cites anti-Semitic protocols

01:20:37 Charter endorses slavery

01:21:29 Islamic historical admiration

01:22:07 Utopia includes slavery

01:22:22 Reactionary movement misunderstood

01:23:05 Arguments for Hamas
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[DonQuickZote]

“There’s something almost childish in the settler colonialist argument.”

Slight understatement!

[GabrielNoahBrahm]

Berman's the best. Kudos to Quillette for getting this out to a wide audience.

[bennyamon]

Studied fanon as a radical undergrad at uc Berkeley in the 200s and have since had my own process of growing into a nuanced perspective on Israel. This was a great listen.

[sondratuckfelt]

Thank you for the intelligent exposure of antisemitism

[AndyJarman]

Isn't a two state solution what Israel attempted when it pulled out of the formerly Egyptian Gaza in 2007?

Didn't Israel pull out all the Jews who had moved to Gaza, and if the territory self rule?

Look where that got them.

[justinmalinowski]

Thank you for this very informative, and occasionally humorous, interview. Excellent work, as usual! 👏

[chrishaughton_]

Anti Zionism is also different in kind to other “anti-colonial” movements in that the existence of Israel disproves the (current) story of Islam. This, naturally, has a quite significant impact on the billions of Muslims on our planet.

[n]

Hebron today is what it looks like when the oppressed persecuted minority finely has the strength to protect itself after centuries of persecutions. Looking at it and seeing "colonialism" is completely twisted.

[donovanleighton]

To what extent was Stokly Carmichael being influenced, played, or directed by Russian intelligence services in his later years?

[liteenergy]

Comparing Israel to a colonialist project is like saying the American Indians are colonialists. The American Indians like the Jews have been displaced a good deal. But they also have come back a good step as well. We now have nations within a nation.

Ok, Israel is a totally independent nation. But that doesn't make it a colonialist project.

[John-cuo]

So he admits that from the point of view of a Palestinian farmer it might "look like" colonialism. But that's naive - because they have failed to undertand that it is the ancient Jewish homeland and there has been a continuous Jewish presence. Well, Jews or ancient Israelites never lived in the coastal regions where Tel Aviv or Haifa are, or in the Sinai or Gaza. So I guess according to Mr. Berman they have to give those regions back because they have no claim to them. Also according to Mr. Berman, most of the world map has to be re-written to restore territory to the descendants of the ancient inhabitants. Number 1 on the list would be the United States, including Mr. Berman's own home, which clearly some Indian tribe has a claim to, for whom the land it is on has ancient religious significance. It would be "naive" of him given this history to resent having his home taken away.

[Kurtlane]

"Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket."
- Eric Hoffer

Intersectionalism is almost 100% racket.

[aryebognar]

6:50 Where do tenant farmers expect to inherit their landlords' land except in Israel?

[liteenergy]

This is a partial list of travelers to Israel in the 19th century. All of them stated that the land was desolate and practically uninhabited. Most of the "Palestinians" came to Israel after the Jews started to settle and restore it.

1840 Lord Shaftsbury, Anthony Ashley Cooper 7th earl of Shaftesbury coined the phrase,
"A land without a people, for a people without a land."

1697 Thomas Shaw, English traveler
Palestine was, "lacking in people to till the soil".

18th century, French Count Constantine Francois Volney an 18th century historian.
Called Palestine "ruined", "desolate", observed that "many parts had lost almost all their peasantry". Complained that the Ottomans listed larger populations. Perhaps people didn't live there because of Ottoman taxation policies.
"The traveler meets with nothing but houses in ruins, cisterns rendered useless, and fields abandoned."

1816 James Silk Buckingham, English traveler
Jaffa had "all the appearances of a poor village and every port of it that we saw was of corresponding meaness"
Ramle was, "as throughout the greater part of Palestine, the ruined portion seemed more extensive than that which was inhabited"

1836 British nobleman Alexander William Crawford Lindsay
"All Judea, except the hills of Hebron and the vales immediately about Jerusalem, are desolate and barren."

1840 Lord Shaftsbury, Anthony Ashley Cooper 7th earl of Shaftesbury coined the phrase,
"A land without a people, for a people without a land."

1852 English Clergyman Henry Burgess Whitaker Churton
"Soon after leaving the Mount of Olives the country becomes an entire desolation for eighteen miles of mountain, until we reached the plain of the Jordan... That plain itself is now, in great measure, bare as a desert"

1853 Reverend Arthur G. H. Hollingsworth
wrote an extensive report on the desolation of the land

1857 British Council in Palestine
"The country is to a considerable degree empty of inhabitants and therefore its greatest need is that of a body of population."

1857 Herman Melville, author of 'Moby Dick'
"No grace of decay - no ivy - the unleavened nakedness of desolation"

1860 Henry Baker Tristram
"the north and south of the Sharon plain land is going out of cultivation and whole villages are rapidly disappearing from the face of the earth. Since 1838, no less than 20 villages there have been thus erased from the map and the stationary population extirpated."

1869 Mark Twain
Quotations on the desolation of the area are extensive.

1888 Sir John William Dawson

1888 English Clergyman Reverend Samuel Manning
described the Plain of Sharon as "a land without inhabitants."


The word 'palestine' comes from the ancient Hebrew word 'plishtim' which means 'invader'.

By their own admission and use of the word, they are the invaders.

[JonFrumTheFirst]

Throught the 20th century there was a thread of anti-semitism in urban blacks. They moved into Jewish owned apartment building - owned by Jews who were often immigrants themselves - tore them apart, and then blamed the Jewish landlord for wanting the rent paid. "They don't take care of the building' was them misdirecting their own failure to keep the building they lived in clean and in order. The same buildings had often housed the Irish before them, and had been perfectly good. And owners of property they've invested their hard earned money in don't deliberately let their property decay and lose its value. Black anit-semitism comes naturally to many - they learned it in private in their homes and neighborhoods.

[liteenergy]

The video states that the Hamass Charter actually advocates and intends to introduce slavery. Does anyone have a copy of the texts and the part of the Charter that states this?

[unisophia]

“progressive thought” 🤦‍♂️

remember, kittens:

wanking ≠ sex
“progressive thought” ≠ thought

[stevenkarras]

My college classmate's mom went to hs at Bronx Science with Stokley Carmichael. Never forgot when she told me that he originaally wanted to follow his Jewish friends to Brandeis U, Wasn't meant to be.

[UkieCanuckPatriot]

Why is Jewish immigration to “Muslim land” (Palestine) considered colonialism but Muslim immigration to Europe fine? 🤔

[kcltube]

such a great discussion thanks so much!