David Fitzgerald Debunks Christian Myths

Today, we are more than happy to welcome David Fitzgerald to the show to discuss the evidence we have for a historical Jesus and why the evidence isn't quite as good as previously thought.

More on Gallio: Gallio (died 65 C.E.) Seneca’s silence is com-pounded by the fact that his older brother was Junius Annaeus Gallio, who actually appears in the Bible. Ac-cording to the author of the book of Acts (18:12-17), Gallio was the magistrate who heard Paul's case and threw it out of court. If this is true, it’s curious that Gallio never seems to have told his brother about this amazing Jesus character that everyone was so excited about, since Seneca was very interested in just this sort of thing. But Seneca shows no sign of ever having heard of Christians or Jesus at all. It’s also strange that even in Acts, Gallio has never heard of Jesus. This makes no sense at all if Jesus was a famous miracle worker recently executed who had returned from the dead and remained in Jerusalem for forty days, as Acts also says.

[brigidagrona]

Fitzgerald is an amazing author, highly recommend!

[jackbean]

David is one of favourite speakers, he is funny and he truly cares about the issues.

[TimRaySr]

I too have searched for Jesus. I found more proof for the existence of Sherlock Holmes.

[jenniferbrewer]

I'm technically not an atheist, but I'd rather listen to you than the religious types. You guys actually THINK about things instead of "taking it on faith."

[roninst]

I'm a fan of David, but at the 25 minute mark he stumbles over the famous Tacitus quote on Christians. For atheists who want a better response, here are some facts:
1. This verse is never cited by Church Fathers, and no mention is made of this anywhere prior to the 15th century
2. The verse comes from a SINGLE manuscript that was hand-copied by Christian scribes and 'discovered' in medieval times.
3. Tacitus never mentions Christians anywhere else in his voluminous works
4. Nero's supposed persecution of Christians for the fire of Rome is contradicted by other historians
5. The tone and style of the passage are unlike the writing of Tacitus

In other words, this is an obvious Christian fraud, during a time of rampant frauds when the Catholic church would pay for these items. For instance, the Shroud of Turin was 'discovered' during this time. Feel free to research this topic yourself. When Christians quote these references--ask about the source document.

[VaughanMcCue]

This video is still relevant 8 years later. Thanks to the Milly Atheists and D.F.

[donjohnny]

I have the same exact story as he does. Southern Baptist and, then, here comes a Christopher Hitchen's debate. GG.

[p.bamygdala]

I remember that millisecond in my own life. Still so vivid, 25 some-odd years later!

[sandijay]

Another great talk by David Fitzgerald

[mr_brunel]

I posted the similarities between Jesus' ministry and Josephus' descriptions of (fake) prophets/messias on a forum once.
All those Messias somehow also did what what is ascribed to Jesus' ministry. So they just took Josephus' scripture, took some 'wonders' out of them and attributed them to their Jesus. Some of these straightly mirror the Jesus story, and makes me wonder about a lot of things. For example :

"There was an Egyptian false prophet that did the Jews more mischief than the former; for he was a cheat, and pretended to be a prophet also, and got together thirty thousand men that were deluded by him; these he led round about from the wilderness to the mount which was called the Mount of Olives. He was ready to break into Jerusalem by force from that place; and if he could but once conquer the Roman garrison and the people, he intended to rule them by the assistance of those guards of his that were to break into the city with him.

But Felix prevented his attempt, and met him with his Roman soldiers, while all the people assisted him in his attack upon them, insomuch that when it came to a battle, the Egyptian ran away, with a few others, while the greatest part of those that were with him were either destroyed or taken alive; but the rest of the multitude were dispersed every one to their own homes, and there concealed themselves."
— Flavius Josephus, Jewish War, 2.261-262

But we find in Acts 21:38-39

Art thou not that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers?
But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus.

Somehow Paul gets confused with this Egyptian. It is not clear just by association, because he says the same things and has the same teachings, or physically. But given him being a Jew from Tarsus he wouldn't look like an Egyptian at all. So the first argument is more likely.

There is a huge difference between 30, 000 and 4000 but the bible seems to disagree with Josephus on this one. Besides the number 4000 in the wilderness we came across in :

Matthew 15:29-39 New International Version (NIV)
Jesus Feeds the Four Thousand

Could this be Jesus just feeding his army of 4000?

There are some more clues about Jesus leading what is basically a terrorist rebel army :

Luke 9:51-18:14
A Samaritan Village Refuses To Receive Jesus

51 Not long before it was time for Jesus to be taken up to heaven, he made up his mind to go to Jerusalem. 52 He sent some messengers on ahead to a Samaritan village to get things ready for him. 53 But he was on his way to Jerusalem, so the people there refused to welcome him. 54 When the disciples James and John saw what was happening, they asked, “Lord, do you want us to call down fire from heaven to destroy these people?”
55 But Jesus turned and corrected them for what they had said. 56 Then they all went on to another village.

Another evidence is Luke 22:36

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."

There are lots of clues, but it will make this post way too long.

So is this guy Jesus? Are the writers of the new testament inspired by him? We know Jesus spent atleast some time in Egypt and people would be called by places they lived. Like Jesus of Nazareth, Jesus the Galilee, Jesus of Bethlehem, Paul of Tarsus, etc. It isn't a wide stretch Jesus would be called Jesus the Egyptian too.

But the post basically got raided by militant Christians and self declared know it alls that panic and become really nasty when you have an answer to all their 'got ya' questions. Everyone that agreed with me, or even said it was interesting, got massively downvoted.

[DexterDexter]

6:40 this is so true - everyone from Ehrmen to Dilahunty immediately get really pissy and apologetic in really sketchy ways about it. Bart E, the man who says there’s several sources and then counts off each gospel as a separate piece AND one that doesn’t exist (Q), and a single mention of jesus’ brother. bonkers for someone who is so intelligent.

what i always come to is the question ‘if you boil away all of the myth, literary artifice and contradictions what have you got left?!

8 years on from this post and Bart is the same ad he ever was, patronising and flippant.

[MarkTheAutodidact]

Links to data cited will prove useful. Massive thanks to all involved in the propagation of this channel including guests.

[roybaines]

I feel the historicity of 'jesus' as a fabrication or perhaps an ordinary deluded guy is a worthy endeavour as it exposes how extremely poor the evidence is, not just for him, but for the entire Christian biblical story.

[RogerAMello]

"Jesus is real! I know because I know!" argh!

[pdoylemi]

The question of whether "Jesus" existed, is not as simple as it seems. As an atheist, I consider it far more likely that there really was some actual apocalyptic cult leader in 1st century Judea preaching something at least vaguely similar to what we call Christianity, but the Jesus portrayed in the Bible? No way - I don't believe that for a moment.

[p.bamygdala]

When did those Roman archives burn down?
I wonder if that played a role in people attempting to “recreate” lost knowledge by

[JamesRichardWiley]

If Yahweh, the all powerful, impeccable Hebrew god is real
there was no need for Jesus to appear to correct his father's mistakes.
Since Yahweh cannot make mistakes.

[teawithsu]

Recovering Addict Atheist here. At this point I can say, I didn't go in that way but, I've evolve to this. I now feel totally obligate to suppose those who supported me and, moreso, the others like me who are on their way to our 12 Step fellowship. To work the simple steps as an non-theist, we use the "Good Orderly Direction" method.

[geraldbrienza]

The interviewer has so much trouble formulating a cogent question, annoying.

[amonra]

The apologism is being able to give an answer to every question, regardless of what the question is.
So even if "Is there a god?" is a simple question like "do you have a pencil?" there is not a simple answer, as it should be.