Chit Chat - Episode 4 - Expansions at Essen, Stone Age and The Last Jedi

Chit Chat - Episode 4 - Expansions at Essen, Stone Age and The Last Jedi

Tune in Bi-weekly for our newest show, Chit Chat!!

0:56 - Essen and the incredible number of expansions
18:05 - What have we been playing
22:00 - The Last Jedi trailer

Hosted by Jeremy Salinas (Drakkenstrike)
Hosted by David Waybright

[trevinsky]

Love these Chit Chat videos! I like your review and preview videos as well, but these are by far my favorite. Great topic variety and personal flavor mixed in. Keep it up!

[claudia]

I really love it when you 4 are in front of the camera.
makes so much more fun for me!
when i sat at the hotel in essen, i enjoyed your video before going to the convention :) thanks for the great work and greetings from germany!

[smoothcriminal]

Stone Age is a masterpiece. One of my favorites ever.

[PhilHenDrums]

Gary is adding a ton of excellent games to his collection! Regarding expansions - this year's Essen list includes a bunch of brand new games that also have an expansion (or more) releasing at the same time. That bugs me. I want to play a game several times and get a good feel for it before I have to decide whether to spend additional money on expansions.

[jeromedemeyere]

The reason you sell a game without the expansion already in the box is price point. You wouldn't believe the drop off in sales over a certain price threshold. Of course the game is sometimes better with the expansion but it would have sold half as much in retail because of the extra 5$.

I'm designing games and a lot of my ideas end up either in the trash or in the 'expansion drawer'. Usually because it makes the game more complex (gamery) or too expensive. Expansions for me are for the people who really love the game.

[clumsydad]

I haven't heard about Imaginarium from Cathala at all. Speaking of Zelda, my son and I never did reach the end of Wind Waker. (-: And a star wars trailer convo to boot ... perfect !!   Chit Chat... cool segment

[jesseblack]

I'd almost say that I only buy games that have an expansion out or one announced. The rule is not always true, but I enjoy the extra replayability and content. And since I only have limited shelf space, why not go for games with more replayability?

[TheLazzanova]

I didn't purchase some games that already have a lot of expansions, simply because I get the feeling I' m missing out on a part of the game. For example Arkham Horror the card game. It already has so many expansions that it frightens me out to buy the base set.

[SharlzG]

I'm really enjoying these vids (though I do admit to skipping SW:TLJ discussions because I'm avoiding the trailer altogether till I've seen the movie #nospoilers and yes, I also have my tickets and at least 3 sessions in the first week or two). Entertaining and informative segment as usual. Thanks :)

[nickhayes]

I just discovered your show, and I must say I really enjoyed this.  I'll weigh in with my thoughts:  I have to really, REALLY love a game before I start buying expansions.  I would usually prefer to buy a new game, rather than buy an expansion that may or may not improve a game that I already love.  The only expansions that I have bought are for King of Tokyo because I love getting the new monsters (I plan to get the King of New York expansion, as well).  The only other expansions that I am really trying to track down are the Talisman expansions.  Talisman is my favorite game, and when GW took the game back from FFG it really force me to start looking for those expansions to complete that collection.  I've got 5 of the 14 (again, I especially love getting the new playable characters).  Otherwise, unless I can just find some really good prices on expansions, though, I'm really just not that interested.   -   ***SPOILER ALERT*** (Just in case someone has been living under a rock) I'm very cautiously optimistic about The Last Jedi.  I'm still really upset at The Force Awakens and how they handled Han's death (he didn't deserve to be shanked like a snitch in the prison yard), and The Force Awakens is my least favorite film in the series, yeah you read that right.  So I'm really hoping to see them do something that is going to explain why that happened the way that it did and maybe help it sit a little better with me.  As it is, I'm not happy about JJ Abrams being brought back for Episode 9.  Time will tell.  I need Star Wars returned to its former glory in my mind.

[InteractionImplants]

Do a separate top 10 Essen games list and top 5 or 10 Expansions list.

[jesseblack]

Maybe I'm a minority here, but I have yet to encounter that adds enjoyable things to a game I enjoy, often time it's only certain parts of the expansion. I think publisher are designing their MVP or their most viable product. Do to increased costs of all sorts, it probably doesn't make sense to include these expansions with the base game. Further, we should be glad that these extra costs aren't assigned to the base game at our expense. It makes it cheaper for people to buy the game and there's extra content there if you enjoy the game. I do agree the game should be great out of the box and parts of the game that make it great should not be withheld.

[jimtompkins]

Dessert for Odin? or perhaps Pepto Bismol. l See a very cynical trend, unfortunately. Although most expansions are after thought additions or perhaps we did not have the resources or interest to add this idea or that, which we wanted to do but the price point was too high.

[davidcassady]

Let me know if you decide to DM D&D, Dave. I'd be interested.

[mattlowder]

I'm literally terrified of this trend of expansions. I think it's bad. It's riding the coattails of designer's previous achievements and not all games need them. Some are great. Some are forced and a cash grab. I'm really split on it, and I really want more unique ideas to be published, not expansions -- not just more of something that doesn't radically make the game experience improved.

[clumsydad]

Great chat, i've totally avoided expansions so far (although some close calls), I just don't physically game enough that I can justify it... I'm lucky if I get to play an original game 2-3 times.

[petec]

Expansions should not be the same price as a full game!

[repeataftermeme]

Board games have come along way. There have been board games that have tried new and quaky things over the years, some flopped and some were a success. Either way, there will always be cash grab business. Business is business and that will never change for anyone or anything. Nobody ever thought board games would have integrated phone apps as part of game play, but here we are.

I wouldn't compare video games and board games as the audience is too different. Sure both are social and games, but it's the way the community is, and how those in it force change. If neither had any audience, we wouldn't have the great games we have now. The companies in the video game industry are more cynical than the board game industry. It costs more to make a game than a board game. There's more people involved. At the end of the day, one uses nothing but technology as the other just cardboard. Sure there's other materials but some of those components can be purchased for cheap, wooden cubes and such.

If anything I see Kickstarter being flooded more with board games. It's cheaper for the publisher/creator, but has a high risk for the consumer. From the looks of things, consumers are more willing to take that risk versus taking a risk of buying a board game they know nothing about that sits on a shelf next to Monopoly. Speaking of Monopoly, to me its the one game that is the King of cash grab as its constantly being re-themed. Games like monopoly should no longer exist as they don't represent the board gaming community very well.

All games should either be designed with one of two things in mind: 1. a game that WILL have an expansion or expansions and 2. a game that's designed not to have any expansions. If the designer is creating, they should already know if there's going to be an expansion. A game should be designed to where it will always be better than its expansion(s) whether it will come out with an expansion or not. Sure ideas suddenly come up or get left out. Then again, that's where play testing comes in. Every aspect in the process of making a game should little by little trim and fine tune or strengthened via expansions, which in the end just be part of the core game.

I hear for some games that the expansion makes the core game 10 times better. When I hear of that, I think to myself, they should've included the expansion as part of the core game or should of never bothered with the game in the first place. When an expansion is better than the core game, that's a problem. Sure the game may still be fun, but in the end it's costing the consumer more money than it should have. I can make exceptions to 2nd or 3rd editions, but only if its rule clarifying, component upgrading, or the game switches publisher hands as a 2nd or 3rd edition will take place anyways under a new company. When 2nd and 3rd editions come out to be or feel like a different game its a problem as play testing wasn't done enough or was never part of the designing process. Any game that goes on to have expansions and gets remade into 2nd edition or 3rd editions, each new edition should auto include every expansion that's come out thus far.

With Kickstarter, people have direct contact with the creator and that alone grabs attention from consumers. The idea of their input actually altering the game for the better and the consumer seeing their input change things before their eyes is powerful. You don't get that power when trying to communicate with a commercial publisher. People complain about Kickstarter, but a lot of these games that are on top ten or top 100 lists came from Kickstarter. Some of the games failed on Kickstarter but got published outside of Kickstarter anyway. None the less they originated from Kickstarter. Personally I love Kickstarter as the indie feel has a certain quality to it you rarely get from the big shot companies.

The price tag for video game expansions is something that should be foreseen and considered a common thing. If it's a FPS, Sandbox (GTA), or fighting game; expect a 40ty dollar expansion as it is part of the genre now days.

Over all, expansions should in a sense add to the fun factor by turning up the volume, but should never replace the core game. Stand alone's I feel are the worst of expansions. Why even call it an expansion if it's a stand alone? Games like stories might be the only exceptions as each expansion acts more like a chapter in a book to an over all story arch. Each key moment in board gaming will have its downs, but will also spawn many ups.

If people don't like the change perhaps they should dabble in the creative process and design a game on their own and realize the many hurdles. Just don't get mad if you are on the bad side of the shotgun barrel when handling the comments or complaints. Designing is hard even when you have knack or over all talent for it. The key is knowing when to turn your brain off as ideas tend to never stop flowing lol!

Great Video!

[petec]

i get pretty disappointed every time i think about how one of my all-time favorite games - Troyes - has a $40 expansion, and it only really includes 27 cards, six dice, and a few chits and bits. i have a hard time seeing this as than a total cash grab.

[petec]

carcassonne is a perfect example of cash grab expansions. the original game should have at least the first two expansions in the box.